Bible John (General Discussion)

[Abby Normal]

recognizing someone from a photofit from sixty years ago? lol cmon

[rjpalmer]

Cobalt/ Roger,

After reading the background provided by Cobalt this one certainly doesn’t seem anything like as possible as it does at first glance. Why is David Wilson wheeled out every time a cold case is looked into? How many has he solved?

I don't understand your comment, Herlock. What does David Wilson have to do with Pauline Badger's statement?

I'm not convinced of the 'car confusion' theory mentioned by Cobalt, though it was discussed in the podcast. For this to have happened, either she was extremely unlucky and the wrong car she got into just happened to be that of a rapists/murderer, or it was a premeditated plot by someone who knew of her babysitting assignment and went to meet her before the wing commander arrived. The first is possible but mere speculation, while the second seems farfetched.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I don't understand your comment, Herlock. What does David Wilson have to do with Pauline Badger's statement?

I'm not convinced of the 'car confusion' theory mentioned by Cobalt, though it was discussed in the podcast. For this to have happened, either she was extremely unlucky and the wrong car she got into just happened to be that of a rapists/murderer, or it was a premeditated plot by someone who knew of her babysitting assignment and went to meet her before the wing commander arrived. The first is possible but mere speculation, while the second seems farfetched.

Just a general comment on Wilson after Cobalt mentioned him giving his opinion on the Ellis murder.

[cobalt]

There are different accounts of Rita's movements on the evening she was killed, some of which come from local newspapers. In most versions she left her apartment block witnessed by a young couple at around 7.25 and went to the guardhouse to await her lift to go babysitting. The officer drove instead to the block at around 7.40, waited 15 minutes, then returned with his wife since men were not allowed into the female block. His wife made enquiries to no avail, although it is believed she went into block 6 instead of block 7 where Rita resided.

One account has Rita being picked up by a car just prior to the arrival of the officer at 7.40. Another account has her returning to her room inside the block where she was seen at around 8pm. There is another possible sighting of her around this time near the gymnasium but I have no idea how far away that would be from her room.

The army base was busy that night- it was the weekend I think- with disco and bingo on the entertainment agenda which meant a fair number of non-army personnel would have been in the grounds. Female quarters inside an army camp would be an obvious place of interest for anyone seeking female company. If Rita was standing looking like she'd been 'stood up' she might have attracted interest of the worst sort.

David Wilson has identified what he believes is a strong suspect and passed such information to the police. I wouldn't expect to hear much more on that front. The MoD records of the case remain sealed until 2070 on grounds of national security.

[rjpalmer]

Just a general comment on Wilson after Cobalt mentioned him giving his opinion on the Ellis murder.

Ah, okay, Michael. I thought there was some connection between Badger and Wilson's theories that I didn't know about.

I went back and listened again to the end of the Ellis podcast, and it's stranger than I remembered.

If what is stated is true--and who knows in this day and age?---the medical technician at the RAF base must have been identified--just not named, though no account I've yet seen makes this explicit.

The claim is that he was transferred abroad right after the murder of Ellis in November 1967 (this was four months before the first Bible John murder). It then also goes on to claim he was on 'leave' at the time of each of the three Bible John murders in 1968-1969. Of course, there's no way anyone could know this unless the man in question has been identified, and his service record checked. It would also have been enough of a coincidence that it would have been investigated.

As Cobalt states, since 200 men have had their DNA checked in the Ellis case and were eliminated, wouldn't he be among them? One often gets the feeling that some of these theories area a wind-up, with certain necessary bits of information deliberately withheld, but I'm still going to look into it a bit further. Ciao.

[cobalt]

A contemporary report from 1967 mentions a cafe owner, mid 40s, who heard a couple arguing near the place where Rita Ellis' body was found the following morning. This happened around 9pm, at least an hour after her last being seen.

Rather curiously a local woman, previously unaware of the case, did some detective work quite recently and discovered that the story about Rita being worried about being attacked was known to a woman who she thinks worked in a cafe at the time. Possibly the daughter of the cafe owner back in 1967 who I assume is not Pauline Badger but perhaps knew her then.

This is not much help regarding Bible John though. I have to assume the Puttock crime scene DNA has been entered on the UK database and did not match that from the army base. That leaves the possibility of John McInnes, but surely his movements have been scrutinised and he has been discounted as a suspect.