Bible John (General Discussion)

[Ms Diddles]

That one is on there. I just looked at some of the stills. I wonder if there are any older ones though that might capture some of the locations?

Nah, sadly not.

I had a good trawl through all of the Scottish locations and couldn't find anything showing Glasgow in the right era.

[cobalt]

Picking up on NW's thoughts about the victims having something in common. They are often portrayed as feckless types, somewhat lovelorn, putting themselves at risk. But the evidence points away from this. Jemima McDonald was a regular patron of the Barrowland and according to police inquiries had a number of friends and casual acquaintances there so she would have felt quite secure. This is even more the case with Helen Puttock who started out the evening in the company of her sister and a few friends. The thing they had in common was a love of dancing and a sense of belonging to the same social scene. These were not quite the naive, lonely victims falling into the clutches of BJ that we can sometimes imagine they were. Jemima McDonald even waved to a neighbour as she stood talking with her killer outside the property where she was murdered. Helen Puttock was quite confident she would be taken back home safely after her sister was dropped off.

Regarding the John Templeton theory and route home, he must have been walking the streets of Glasgow for over an hour either end of his late night bus trip. The streets would be deserted for the most part from 2am onwards but that also means anyone out and about would catch attention from a passing car or pedestrian. Apart from the bus sighting there does not seem to be any witness to this suspicious character being seen anywhere on the streets.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ironically the attitude of the police in some ways mirrored Bible John’s. To them they were ‘scarlet women.’ They either felt that just dancing with different men was an act of promiscuity in itself or that dancing naturally led to sex. As if they were looking for sex rather than just fun. They may have been hoping to meet Mr. Right but that doesn’t mean that they were working their way through all of the Barrowland men. And of course, if sex did occasionally become a part of their fun..so what? The young men would have received a free pass on this kind of behaviour of course.

[Ms Diddles]

Picking up on NW's thoughts about the victims having something in common. They are often portrayed as feckless types, somewhat lovelorn, putting themselves at risk. But the evidence points away from this. Jemima McDonald was a regular patron of the Barrowland and according to police inquiries had a number of friends and casual acquaintances there so she would have felt quite secure. This is even more the case with Helen Puttock who started out the evening in the company of her sister and a few friends. The thing they had in common was a love of dancing and a sense of belonging to the same social scene. These were not quite the naive, lonely victims falling into the clutches of BJ that we can sometimes imagine they were. Jemima McDonald even waved to a neighbour as she stood talking with her killer outside the property where she was murdered. Helen Puttock was quite confident she would be taken back home safely after her sister was dropped off.

Regarding the John Templeton theory and route home, he must have been walking the streets of Glasgow for over an hour either end of his late night bus trip. The streets would be deserted for the most part from 2am onwards but that also means anyone out and about would catch attention from a passing car or pedestrian. Apart from the bus sighting there does not seem to be any witness to this suspicious character being seen anywhere on the streets.

Again, I agree with you Cobalt.

That's largely why I lean towards a west end culprit and favour the idea that he may have cut through Kelvingrove Park.

Unless of course it was indeed McInnes using his relativr's flat as a convenient crash pad.

I think the portrayal of the victims as either scarlet women or poor, feckless lonely souls is just representative of the generalised misogyny of the era.

I'm sure they were just girls who loved dancing and were looking for a bit of fun and respite from the daily grind.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Here is a photograph of Detective Chief Inspector James McInnes, John McInnes's cousin.

It doesn't really add anything to the case, but personally I always like to put a face to a name if possible.

[Ms Diddles]

Ironically the attitude of the police in some ways mirrored Bible John’s. To them they were ‘scarlet women.’ They either felt that just dancing with different men was an act of promiscuity in itself or that dancing naturally led to sex. As if they were looking for sex rather than just fun. They may have been hoping to meet Mr. Right but that doesn’t mean that they were working their way through all of the Barrowland men. And of course, if sex did occasionally become a part of their fun..so what? The young men would have received a free pass on this kind of behaviour of course.

Spot on Herlock!

I suspect they were worldly enough to have no illusions about meeting Mr Right and just wanted to kick up their heels and enjoy themselves.

The attitude of the police is shocking to us in this day and age, but what always shocks me more is that often some of the harshest critics of women were other women!

I'm never sure whether that was a manifestation of jealousy or a weird kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

Sad!

[Ms Diddles]

Here is a photograph of Detective Chief Inspector James McInnes, John McInnes's cousin.

It doesn't really add anything to the case, but personally I always like to put a face to a name if possible.

Me too Barn, so thanks for posting!

[barnflatwyngarde]

In David Wilson and Paul Harrison's book "The Last British Serial Killer" the authors make the erroneous comment that, "Nor did McInnes's teeth match the bite mark that had been left on Helen's body". (page 68) (My emphasis)

The authors seem unaware that when John McInnes died he had dentures.

Careless and sloppy research!

Approach with care!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here is a photograph of Detective Chief Inspector James McInnes, John McInnes's cousin.

It doesn't really add anything to the case, but personally I always like to put a face to a name if possible.

Good find Barn He looks like one of the Kray twins.

[Herlock Sholmes]

In David Wilson and Paul Harrison's book "The Last British Serial Killer" the authors make the erroneous comment that, "Nor did McInnes's teeth match the bite mark that had been left on Helen's body". (page 68) (My emphasis)

The authors seem unaware that when John McInnes died he had dentures.

Careless and sloppy research!

Approach with care!

Such a basic error Barn. You can only think “how could you not know that and still consider yourself qualified to write a book on the subject.”

[jmenges]

Funny, David Wilson claimed to have met Paul Harrison only once, at a crime conference, and reportedly that meeting left him suspicious of Harrison. Easy for Wilson to say now that Harrison has been exposed as a complete fraud. Wilson might have conveniently forgotten that they “co-authored” a book together. Or perhaps Wilson just receives a fee if you’d like to put his name next to yours on the cover? Who knows. Both of them are dubious individuals if you ask me.

JM

[cobalt]

I saw a resemblance to Frankie Vaughan in the photo. Frankie made a few headlines at the same time as the Bible John murders when he visited the Easterhouse housing scheme in Glasgow in an attempt to tackle the problem of gang crime. He received much criticism for his efforts, especially from local politicians, but Frankie did at least show that the people of the post war housing project were capable of more than the tabloid media claimed they were

[Herlock Sholmes]

Funny, David Wilson claimed to have met Paul Harrison only once, at a crime conference, and reportedly that meeting left him suspicious of Harrison. Easy for Wilson to say now that Harrison has been exposed as a complete fraud. Wilson might have conveniently forgotten that they “co-authored” a book together. Or perhaps Wilson just receives a fee if you’d like to put his name next to yours on the cover? Who knows. Both of them are dubious individuals if you ask me.

JM

I haven’t seen this programme Jon - David Wilson’s Crime Files: Scams and Scandals - which is available to watch on the BBC IPlayer and sees Wilson ‘deal’ with Harrison. It’s noticeable that an article in The News and Star it says that Wilson was ‘namechecked’ in one of Harrison’s books when the book was actually published as being co-authored. There’s a photo of them together at a Scottish writing festival in 2013, 3 years after their book had been published.

The two were made for each other imo.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I haven’t seen this programme Jon - David Wilson’s Crime Files: Scams and Scandals - which is available to watch on the BBC IPlayer and sees Wilson ‘deal’ with Harrison. It’s noticeable that an article in The News and Star it says that Wilson was ‘namechecked’ in one of Harrison’s books when the book was actually published as being co-authored. There’s a photo of them together at a Scottish writing festival in 2013, 3 years after their book had been published.

The two were made for each other imo.

Absolutely JM.

The link below is a doozy, just when you thought that you knew it all.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/23847427.carlisle-authors-bogus-claims-feature-bbc-programme/

[cobalt]

Karl Marx noted back in 1848 that Crime was a great contributor to the capitalist system in terms of finance and employment. The USA prison system has taken him at his word and now jails around 25% of the world prison population within its own borders. Others opposed to its regime are jailed elsewhere. No numbers available on that, although Julian Assange is perhaps the best known victim recently.

So Wilson and Harrison are in it for the money. Prestige as well I suppose. Wilson is a self-described 'governor' who as far as I can see was running a borstal before he branched out into becoming an expert on sexual deviants. Harrison was I think a dog handler for Kettering Police, before he proclaimed himself a 'detective' who had spoken with Reggie Kray, Ted Bundy and possibly Jack the Ripper in his imagination. Harrison's FBI links have been completely debunked. They are a pair of charlatans.

I'm sure we often pick up the wrong thread on this site but at least we are genuine seekers after the truth. That pair are bought men, selling books to credulous people with less grasp of reality than any of Bible John's victims. Ignore them, is my advice.