Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bible John (General Discussion)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Casual misogyny is certainly a feature of these police documents, a world where a woman who 'likes male company' (don't most women?) segues into 'promiscuity.' The blanket statement about the Gowan sisters- that 'all three are promiscuous' - can hardly have been thoroughly checked for accuracy. The character of the women is constantly implied by attributing two possible surnames by which they were known; this was a legal nicety used in sheriff courts when sentencing prostitutes and carried a serious social stigma at the time. The tabloid newspaper equivalent at the time was 'attractive divorcee.'

    No doubt the police could claim they were seeking to avoid ambiguity by referencing these names, just as referencing that some had children to more one father might be some sort of motive for their murder. But it does not read like that today and I doubt it did at the time. Jemima McDonald had three children and we are offered the less than crucial information that one father was a Yugoslav whilst another was from the Caribbean. The third child's father was presumably a Glaswegian so he is not deemed worthy of mention- although unlike the others he was most likely still living in the area! This casual racism includes mention of Patricia Docker having 'affairs with Greek Cypriots' whilst in Cypress.

    So I can see why Audrey Gillan is highlighting the social lens through which the murders were investigated, and how it may have hindered the inquiry. After all, none of these women were killed by a 'foreigner.' Everything points to their having met their death at the hands of a fellow Glaswegian. And if they were as free with their favours as the police believed, that was surely not the reason they were killed: they were killed because they refused the sexual advances of a sexual maniac, not because they welcomed his advances.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post

      Well, I know that John Templeton was always very polite, always very well turned out and certainly spoke in a way that you wouldn't normally expect from an attendant.

      Apologies if the above comment smacks slightly of social stereotyping.
      If only you had asked him which team he supported, eh Barn?!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
        Flash Gordon was filmed in the Highlands??!!!!

        I had no idea!!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cobalt View Post
          Jemima McDonald had three children and we are offered the less than crucial information that one father was a Yugoslav whilst another was from the Caribbean. The third child's father was presumably a Glaswegian so he is not deemed worthy of mention- although unlike the others he was most likely still living in the area!.
          Her eldest girl, Elizabeth, was 11 and had a Yugoslav father but I think that both of her sons, Andrew (8) and Alan (7) were by a black West Indian man called Elridge Motley (I can’t recall if that’s the correct spelling)

          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes.

          “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

            Flash Gordon was filmed in the Highlands??!!!!

            I had no idea!!
            Neither did I. It’s a great site though. I wonder if there are any old films set in Glasgow which might show footage of some relevant BJ locations?
            Regards

            Sir Herlock Sholmes.

            “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by cobalt View Post
              Casual misogyny is certainly a feature of these police documents, a world where a woman who 'likes male company' (don't most women?) segues into 'promiscuity.' The blanket statement about the Gowan sisters- that 'all three are promiscuous' - can hardly have been thoroughly checked for accuracy. The character of the women is constantly implied by attributing two possible surnames by which they were known; this was a legal nicety used in sheriff courts when sentencing prostitutes and carried a serious social stigma at the time. The tabloid newspaper equivalent at the time was 'attractive divorcee.'

              No doubt the police could claim they were seeking to avoid ambiguity by referencing these names, just as referencing that some had children to more one father might be some sort of motive for their murder. But it does not read like that today and I doubt it did at the time. Jemima McDonald had three children and we are offered the less than crucial information that one father was a Yugoslav whilst another was from the Caribbean. The third child's father was presumably a Glaswegian so he is not deemed worthy of mention- although unlike the others he was most likely still living in the area! This casual racism includes mention of Patricia Docker having 'affairs with Greek Cypriots' whilst in Cypress.

              So I can see why Audrey Gillan is highlighting the social lens through which the murders were investigated, and how it may have hindered the inquiry. After all, none of these women were killed by a 'foreigner.' Everything points to their having met their death at the hands of a fellow Glaswegian. And if they were as free with their favours as the police believed, that was surely not the reason they were killed: they were killed because they refused the sexual advances of a sexual maniac, not because they welcomed his advances.
              Very good post cobalt.

              It echoes my sentiments entirely.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

                If only you had asked him which team he supported, eh Barn?!
                Or asked him if he wanted to go dancing.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                  Neither did I. It’s a great site though. I wonder if there are any old films set in Glasgow which might show footage of some relevant BJ locations?
                  The Legend of Barney Thomson is a good one.

                  The Barrowlands and surrounding area feature, as well as some Bridgeton spots close to Mackeith St.

                  I haven't seen the film, but I remember some streets being closed when they were shooting and hearing that Emma Thompson was in town.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post

                    Or asked him if he wanted to go dancing.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

                      The Legend of Barney Thomson is a good one.

                      The Barrowlands and surrounding area feature, as well as some Bridgeton spots close to Mackeith St.

                      I haven't seen the film, but I remember some streets being closed when they were shooting and hearing that Emma Thompson was in town.
                      That one is on there. I just looked at some of the stills. I wonder if there are any older ones though that might capture some of the locations?
                      Regards

                      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                      Comment


                      • Excellent photograph showing the building where Jemima MacDonald's body was found.
                        Once again, it is noticeable just how much risk the killer was taking in committing murder in such a closely built up area.

                        I don't think it has been uploaded before.

                        I am still trying to locate other photos of Mackeith Street.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	Jemima MacDonald Murder Site.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	208.4 KB
ID:	839803

                        Comment


                        • Here is the route that John Templeton, would in all likelihood have taken to get home, if he was the dishevelled man seen getting off the Number 6 bus at Gray Street.


                          Comment


                          • Here is the route that John McInnes, would in all likelihood have taken to get to his Uncle and Aunts house at 204 Berkeley Street, if he was the dishevelled man seen getting off the Number 6 bus at Gray Street.


                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
                              Excellent photograph showing the building where Jemima MacDonald's body was found.
                              Once again, it is noticeable just how much risk the killer was taking in committing murder in such a closely built up area.

                              I don't think it has been uploaded before.

                              I am still trying to locate other photos of Mackeith Street.

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	Jemima MacDonald Murder Site.jpg Views:	6 Size:	208.4 KB ID:	839803
                              I don’t think that the photo has been uploaded here before Barn so thanks for doing that.

                              I wonder if those kids at the bottom right are some of the ones that found the body?

                              If that crime had happened today we would have had mobile phone photos galore of the crime scene and the environs.


                              Thanks for posting the two maps too Barn. It’s good to get an idea of the locations especially for someone who has no knowledge of Glasgow geography.
                              Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 08-15-2024, 05:33 PM.
                              Regards

                              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                              Comment


                              • Here is an interesting photo of Joe Beattie in the incident room.
                                What is interesting is that there are some photo-fits of Bible John that I hadn't seen before.

                                Click image for larger version

Name:	Joe Beattie and Photofit board_avif.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	94.1 KB
ID:	839808

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X