Bible John: A New Suspect by Jill Bavin-Mizzi

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  • Herlock Sholmes
    Commissioner
    • May 2017
    • 22818

    #241
    Ok Barn I have another for you. It’s from episode 3 Jemima MacDonald. It happens at around 4.18 and two old guys are talking about the gangs that frequented the the Barrowland. I just can’t make out what they’re saying.
    Herlock Sholmes

    ”I don’t know who Jack the Ripper was…and neither do you.”

    Comment

    • Herlock Sholmes
      Commissioner
      • May 2017
      • 22818

      #242
      As I was going through the bonus episode about Jemima MacDonald I got to the part where Audrey Gillan spoke to Jemima’s son Alan when he came to her flat. He bought his granddaughter Samantha with him. Samantha had been researching the case and showed Audrey a newspaper photo of the Barrowland during a packed night with the crowd watching a saxophonist (with an old fashioned microphone in front of him) She felt that Jemima was in the picture (Audrey said that the woman that she pointed to was 5 or 6 rows back) Audrey doesn’t really think it is her though. She says that next to her is a man that she thinks is Bible John. He’s wearing glasses but Samantha says that anyone can wear glasses as a disguise. I’d always wanted to see that photo so I’ve been looking.

      I think that I’ve found the picture and I can see and woman who might resemble Jemima standing next to a man with glasses who does look much like Bible John to me. The couple are about a quarter of the way into the photo from the viewers right.

      Nearer the stage but almost directly in front , also wearing glasses, is a man that looks more like the Bible John in the Patterson portrait though. I’m certainly not claiming that it is him though.

      Herlock Sholmes

      ”I don’t know who Jack the Ripper was…and neither do you.”

      Comment

      • cobalt
        Inspector
        • Jan 2015
        • 1182

        #243
        Judging by the men's hairstyles (no sideburns and a fair few quiffs) the photo looks like it's from around 1964. I don't think there would have been many saxophonists still playing solo at the Barrowland in 1969. Maybe someone can date it better by examining the women's hairstyles and dresses.

        Comment

        • New Waterloo
          Detective
          • Jun 2022
          • 305

          #244
          Hi Herlock. For some reason link not working for me. Are others finding this. probably me.
          NW

          Comment

          • New Waterloo
            Detective
            • Jun 2022
            • 305

            #245
            Have now got it. Excellent
            NW

            Comment

            • New Waterloo
              Detective
              • Jun 2022
              • 305

              #246
              The good news is that the photo is pretty clear so thats a real help but I am inclined to think that the photo is earlier than 1969 as Cobalt suggests. I was born 1960 and my sister was some 9 years older than me so about 18 in 1969. I recall her going out and seem to think by 1969 fashion was getting a bit more casual and hippy. Patterns and flowery but we lived more towards London and maybe still a bit more old fashioned in Scotland. I am possibly talking load of rubbish so apologies if not correct.

              it is such a good photo find though. Really good.
              NW

              Comment

              • New Waterloo
                Detective
                • Jun 2022
                • 305

                #247
                I notice from the much published cictim photo that Jemima MacDonald had what appeas to be a quite ‘heavy’ jaw. The woman in the photograph seems very similar to me. There is a strong likeness because of the jaw I believe. So maybe it could be her. The glasses on the man trouble me. I font think has been any mention of glasses has there. I don't buy the glasses thing as a disguise. He seems fairly well built to me. Just observations
                NW

                Comment

                • barnflatwyngarde
                  Inspector
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 1188

                  #248
                  Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                  Ok Barn I have another for you. It’s from episode 3 Jemima MacDonald. It happens at around 4.18 and two old guys are talking about the gangs that frequented the the Barrowland. I just can’t make out what they’re saying.
                  Hi Herlock, from 4.10 the conversation is as follows:

                  "I used to go to the Barrowland at the same time, I'm 76 tomorrow".
                  "Are you? Happy birthday".
                  "You used to have your street gangs, you know, you used to have the Calton Tongs down there, the Bridgeton Derry, the San Toi, all the street gangs, they knew each other and all that."
                  "Street gangs went up the Barrowland?"
                  "Was it as rough as they say?".
                  "Well it was no mean city, you know. They used to carry razor blades and razors. That was thirty year ago you know"

                  I hope this helps.
                  If you have any other problems translating working class Glaswegian, just let me know.

                  Comment

                  • Herlock Sholmes
                    Commissioner
                    • May 2017
                    • 22818

                    #249
                    Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post

                    Hi Herlock, from 4.10 the conversation is as follows:

                    "I used to go to the Barrowland at the same time, I'm 76 tomorrow".
                    "Are you? Happy birthday".
                    "You used to have your street gangs, you know, you used to have the Calton Tongs down there, the Bridgeton Derry, the San Toi, all the street gangs, they knew each other and all that."
                    "Street gangs went up the Barrowland?"
                    "Was it as rough as they say?".
                    "Well it was no mean city, you know. They used to carry razor blades and razors. That was thirty year ago you know"

                    I hope this helps.
                    If you have any other problems translating working class Glaswegian, just let me know.
                    Thanks a lot Barn. I’m usually ok with the accents but there are always some parts which beat me and this was certainly one. Especially the gang names.

                    Herlock Sholmes

                    ”I don’t know who Jack the Ripper was…and neither do you.”

                    Comment

                    • Herlock Sholmes
                      Commissioner
                      • May 2017
                      • 22818

                      #250
                      Originally posted by New Waterloo View Post
                      I notice from the much published cictim photo that Jemima MacDonald had what appeas to be a quite ‘heavy’ jaw. The woman in the photograph seems very similar to me. There is a strong likeness because of the jaw I believe. So maybe it could be her. The glasses on the man trouble me. I font think has been any mention of glasses has there. I don't buy the glasses thing as a disguise. He seems fairly well built to me. Just observations
                      NW
                      Hi NW,

                      Yes, it’s the jaw that stands out and makes me see a similarity at least but that’s possibly all that it is. It seems to me that Jemima’s jaw is more ‘pronounced’ for want of a much better word. Jemima also appears to have darker hair than the woman in the photograph.
                      Herlock Sholmes

                      ”I don’t know who Jack the Ripper was…and neither do you.”

                      Comment

                      • barnflatwyngarde
                        Inspector
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 1188

                        #251
                        Here is another, better photo of Jemima.
                        She looks a happy young woman, and I think a more human person than the other well known photo.

                        I don't think that this has been uploaded here, apologies if it has been. Click image for larger version  Name:	1968-1969-bible-john-serial-killer-glasgow-v0-387erc5l0qbf1.webp Views:	0 Size:	24.0 KB ID:	858037
                        Last edited by barnflatwyngarde; 08-08-2025, 02:34 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Herlock Sholmes
                          Commissioner
                          • May 2017
                          • 22818

                          #252
                          Thanks for posting Barn. A happy looking young woman who, like Pat and Helen, were horribly slurred just for wanting the odd night out dancing.
                          Herlock Sholmes

                          ”I don’t know who Jack the Ripper was…and neither do you.”

                          Comment

                          • Ms Diddles
                            Chief Inspector
                            • Aug 2019
                            • 1745

                            #253
                            Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
                            Here is another, better photo of Jemima.
                            She looks a happy young woman, and I think a more human person than the other well known photo.

                            I don't think that this has been uploaded here, apologies if it has been. Click image for larger version Name:	1968-1969-bible-john-serial-killer-glasgow-v0-387erc5l0qbf1.webp Views:	0 Size:	24.0 KB ID:	858037
                            I don't think I've seen this picture before, Barn.

                            Thanks for posting.

                            I agree that you get much more of a sense of her personality from this photo than the usual slightly out of focus one that we see a lot.

                            Sad, she looks happy and nice.

                            Comment

                            • barnflatwyngarde
                              Inspector
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 1188

                              #254
                              I have already uploaded this picture, but I have managed to upscale it, which makes the image much clearer.

                              It shows Joe Beattie in the Incident Room with photofits of Bible John on the board behind him. Click image for larger version

Name:	_127975226_shutterstock_editorial_3791965a.jpg_upscayl_4x_upscayl-standard-4x.png
Views:	67
Size:	28.6 KB
ID:	858046

                              Comment

                              • barnflatwyngarde
                                Inspector
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 1188

                                #255
                                Well that didn't go as planned.

                                If I can find a way to make the image larger I'll have another go.

                                Frustrating!!

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