Bible John: A New Suspect by Jill Bavin-Mizzi

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

I saw this and have to say I'm a bit gutted!

The Barrowlands facade is "a thing" here, and I love that it's totally old school.

Sometimes I hate "progress"!!!

I would imagine (hope!) that they would try to stay faithful to this design as it's so iconic and well loved.

I used to be able to see it out of my spare room window and would sometimes sit watching the lights with a g&t.

Hi Ms D,

We get a lot of change for changes sake these days. Some things are iconic and don’t need changing. I’m sure that the majority of those living locally would agree with you.

[Ms Diddles]

Hi Herlock,

I saw this and have to say I'm a bit gutted!

The Barrowlands facade is "a thing" here, and I love that it's totally old school.

Sometimes I hate "progress"!!!

I would imagine (hope!) that they would try to stay faithful to this design as it's so iconic and well loved.

I used to be able to see it out of my spare room window and would sometimes sit watching the lights with a g&t.

[Herlock Sholmes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czjk1gmrjwjo

[cobalt]

The directors might be uncertain about what line to take. We are in a new Trumpian culture in the west and directors don't want to be outside the zeitgeist in case it stymies their career.

Misogyny. Opening scene sees BJ and Fred West leering across at dancers in the Barrowland. A bit passe these days and might offend Trump who would not look out of place next to the pair of them.

No Mean City. Opening scene of Helen and Jeannie weaving their way into the Barrowland as a razor gang runs past shouting 'Tongs Ya Bass!' Cliched crap but Peaky Blinders shows there is an audience for this type of stuff.

Religious Mania. BJ crushes Tennents lager can displaying scantily dressed model as he reads his Bible, committed to cleansing the streets of Glasgow. Hardly new, and likely to offend Trump's voter base.

Police Procedural. Beattie and his assistant, a young Jim Taggart, work round the clock trying to nail their man as their own marriages take the strain. Problem here is they don't get their man.

Maybe the zeitgeist would be Traditional Values. Three women in failed marriages pay a terrible price.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock and all,

It sounds interesting but is clearly a long way off from happening if it ever does. One writer ruled out and no one else identified. The BBC declining to comment. Hardly reeks of canvassing for early support.

A significant difference and, I would imagine, difficulty for a Bible John drama from the others you mention is that there is no proven guilty person to concentrate upon.

Btw, I particularly liked White House Farm, the ITV drama about the Bamber case. Did enough for me to show Bamber's guilt but still left questions hanging.

Best regards,
OneRound

Hi OneRound,

I did wonder how they could do a drama on Bible John without mentioning McInnes who I suspect will still have living family members to consider but they clearly have an idea at least. Maybe they have a ‘McInnes-type’ figure? A ‘John McKinley’ or some such name. As you’ve pointed out though, they clearly aren’t finding it plain sailing to get this thing up and running. Big crime drama - you would have thought that directors would have been lining up for the job?

[OneRound]

I only saw it by pure chance. I wonder if anything will come of it? I don’t really see why not as we’ve had two dramas based on the Yorkshire Ripper, one on Denis Nilson, one on the Bamber case, Manhunt with Martin Clunes etc.

Hi Herlock and all,

It sounds interesting but is clearly a long way off from happening if it ever does. One writer ruled out and no one else identified. The BBC declining to comment. Hardly reeks of canvassing for early support.

A significant difference and, I would imagine, difficulty for a Bible John drama from the others you mention is that there is no proven guilty person to concentrate upon.

Btw, I particularly liked White House Farm, the ITV drama about the Bamber case. Did enough for me to show Bamber's guilt but still left questions hanging.

Best regards,
OneRound

[Herlock Sholmes]

Interesting, Herlock!

I'd not heard about this.

It sounds like it's just in the very early stages right now.

I only saw it by pure chance. I wonder if anything will come of it? I don’t really see why not as we’ve had two dramas based on the Yorkshire Ripper, one on Denis Nilson, one on the Bamber case, Manhunt with Martin Clunes etc.

[Ms Diddles]

I wasn’t aware of this.

https://deadline.com/2024/01/bible-j...es-1235705786/

Interesting, Herlock!

I'd not heard about this.

It sounds like it's just in the very early stages right now.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I have been trying to find out a bit more about Moylands Furniture Store. To be honest I couldn't find a lot. It did however raise a question in my brain. To save me listening to all of the excellent Podcast again why was it that McInnes actually became such a strong suspect in the first instance. Was it just the card or the sketches/photofits. Presumably the two factors together. It seems a bit weak if we cant even put McInnes in the club that night even with the card found at the scene. (although I was thinking he fits the bill)

It is right what some have mentioned about witnesses. They are the key, but statements don't seem to have been looked at closely enough. It would be interesting to know what the two Moylands employees who were at the Barrowlands had to say when they were spoken to like were they aware that McInnes was in the club that night.

NW

Hi NW,

When the cold case investigation was ongoing the two detectives, McEwan and Hughes talked to Mickey Moylan who was McInnes’s boss. He told them that salesman called Thomas Murphy, who worked at his Wishaw shop, had been taken in to Partick Marine Station for questioning. We don’t know why but this does provide a Moylan’s link. Another of his employees, Leonard Smith, was put in front of Jeannie for potential identification. Smith said that it wasn’t a formal ID parade and that he was asked to show his teeth. Both of these men had been to a Glasgow furniture show on October 31st 1969 and afterwards they had gone for a drink at Sloane’s Bar before moving on to Barrowland. McInnes’s name apparently hadn’t been mentioned to them by Beattie though. Mickey Moylan’s couldn’t recall McInnes’s name ever being mentioned either.

[New Waterloo]

I have been trying to find out a bit more about Moylands Furniture Store. To be honest I couldn't find a lot. It did however raise a question in my brain. To save me listening to all of the excellent Podcast again why was it that McInnes actually became such a strong suspect in the first instance. Was it just the card or the sketches/photofits. Presumably the two factors together. It seems a bit weak if we cant even put McInnes in the club that night even with the card found at the scene. (although I was thinking he fits the bill)

It is right what some have mentioned about witnesses. They are the key, but statements don't seem to have been looked at closely enough. It would be interesting to know what the two Moylands employees who were at the Barrowlands had to say when they were spoken to like were they aware that McInnes was in the club that night.

NW

[Abby Normal]

thanks gents! ive done a little researching since my last post.

mcInnes is probably your man.
Templeton a close second.

the business card is too much of a coincidence.
and DNA science back then and the sample too sketchy to rule anyone out IMO.

It will be interesting to see if any more stuff comes out on templeton.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I wasn’t aware of this.

https://deadline.com/2024/01/bible-john-bbc-drama-series-1235705786/

[cobalt]

The Moylan's card is linked to McInnes since he worked as a salesman for the furniture company at the time. Since it was found at the scene of the final murder of Helen Puttock we assume that is what led the police to interview McInnes and two of his colleagues. The furniture company itself was 12 miles from Glasgow in a neighbouring town near where McInnes lived. We know that two of McInnes' colleagues attended the Barrowland ballroom that night and it seems that McInnes was there as well, but this has never been confirmed since there is no written evidence of his interview having taken place. All of the above came via a later police re-investigation.

Templeton was only interviewed by police about 6 months after the murder and it seems this was a routine enquiry based on his name being very similar to the one remembered by Helen Puttock's sister. Templeton himself referred to a second interview- and it would be interesting to know if this happened and why- but the author of the recent book does mention a second interview.

[barnflatwyngarde]

fascinating thread, im a noob to this case. couple of noob questions... what is the significance of the moylans card and how does it tie or not tie either Mcinnis or templeton to the case?

Was templeton ever a suspect before this new book?

Hi Abby,
The Moylan's card is significant because John McInnes worked in Moylan's furniture store.

John Templeton was interviewed at least once by police because Jeannie Langford, who was the sister of the last victim, shared a taxi with the killer and said that he said his name was something like Templeton, or Sempleson or Emerson.

There is no evidence that John Templeton was ever considered a suspect for any other reason apart from his name.

Presumably the police felt the need to track down men in Glasgow with that name, or something similar.

Yes Abby, it's an absolutely fascinating case.
There have been some great contributions by Herlock, Ms Diddles, cobalt and others.

[Abby Normal]

fascinating thread, im a noob to this case. couple of noob questions... what is the significance of the moylans card and how does it tie or not tie either Mcinnis or templeton to the case?

Was templeton ever a suspect before this new book?