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  • #46
    Originally posted by Observer View Post
    that would be Tobin would it not BFW?
    hey obs
    yeah after a quick perusal of the case to me it looks like tobin is a pretty strong suspect. a known serial killer of women who raped and murdered women in a similar fashion who was there at the time and known to frequent that ballroom. however langford apparently strongly denies tobin was the man in the taxi with them which is problematic, but after so much time has passed perhaps she was simply mistaken. out of all the known suspects i would go with tobin at this point.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

      Did anyone ever write a book on McInnes as a suspect Barn?
      Hi Herlock, to my knowledge, no book has seriously expressed McInnes as a prime suspect.
      I think that thgere are 2-3 books on the case, but none of them are what could be called definitive.

      One thing that is striking about the case is the way that the Police kept their theories very close to their chest.
      There were few, if any, leaks that emanated from the police.

      McInnes did end up on an identity parade, but the witness didn't pick him out.

      One final thing that I was hesitant to mention in my original post is that I had a very good Police friend who was high up in the serious crime squad.
      He was involved in the investigations of most of the major murders and gang related violence in Glasgow.

      My friend was the model of circumspection if anyone tried to pump him for info re any high profile crimes.
      He took me aside one day in the pub and asked if I could provide him with a full copy of the Voters Roll for Glasgow.
      He explained that there was a leak within the serious crime squad, and he needed a copy of the Voters Roll that he could use privately.
      I managed to get him a not too old copy of the Voters Roll.
      It was never spoken of again.

      After that I think that he knew that I was someone he could talk to who wouldn't betray any confidences

      One day in the pub a group of us must have been talking about the Bible John case, various theories were put forward and the discussion bounced back and
      forth, with my friend saying nothing, until he closed the discussion with the words "It was McInnes".

      I appreciate that by putting this out there I'm entering the realms of "possibly true but possibly hearsay" that dogs so much of meaningful discissions of cases like Bible John, but it's all true.



      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post

        Hi Herlock, to my knowledge, no book has seriously expressed McInnes as a prime suspect.
        I think that thgere are 2-3 books on the case, but none of them are what could be called definitive.

        One thing that is striking about the case is the way that the Police kept their theories very close to their chest.
        There were few, if any, leaks that emanated from the police.

        McInnes did end up on an identity parade, but the witness didn't pick him out.

        One final thing that I was hesitant to mention in my original post is that I had a very good Police friend who was high up in the serious crime squad.
        He was involved in the investigations of most of the major murders and gang related violence in Glasgow.

        My friend was the model of circumspection if anyone tried to pump him for info re any high profile crimes.
        He took me aside one day in the pub and asked if I could provide him with a full copy of the Voters Roll for Glasgow.
        He explained that there was a leak within the serious crime squad, and he needed a copy of the Voters Roll that he could use privately.
        I managed to get him a not too old copy of the Voters Roll.
        It was never spoken of again.

        After that I think that he knew that I was someone he could talk to who wouldn't betray any confidences

        One day in the pub a group of us must have been talking about the Bible John case, various theories were put forward and the discussion bounced back and
        forth, with my friend saying nothing, until he closed the discussion with the words "It was McInnes".

        I appreciate that by putting this out there I'm entering the realms of "possibly true but possibly hearsay" that dogs so much of meaningful discissions of cases like Bible John, but it's all true.


        interesting barn
        was your friend one of the investigators on the bible john case? how old was he in 69?
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post

          Hi Herlock, to my knowledge, no book has seriously expressed McInnes as a prime suspect.
          I think that thgere are 2-3 books on the case, but none of them are what could be called definitive.

          One thing that is striking about the case is the way that the Police kept their theories very close to their chest.
          There were few, if any, leaks that emanated from the police.

          McInnes did end up on an identity parade, but the witness didn't pick him out.

          One final thing that I was hesitant to mention in my original post is that I had a very good Police friend who was high up in the serious crime squad.
          He was involved in the investigations of most of the major murders and gang related violence in Glasgow.

          My friend was the model of circumspection if anyone tried to pump him for info re any high profile crimes.
          He took me aside one day in the pub and asked if I could provide him with a full copy of the Voters Roll for Glasgow.
          He explained that there was a leak within the serious crime squad, and he needed a copy of the Voters Roll that he could use privately.
          I managed to get him a not too old copy of the Voters Roll.
          It was never spoken of again.

          After that I think that he knew that I was someone he could talk to who wouldn't betray any confidences

          One day in the pub a group of us must have been talking about the Bible John case, various theories were put forward and the discussion bounced back and
          forth, with my friend saying nothing, until he closed the discussion with the words "It was McInnes".

          I appreciate that by putting this out there I'm entering the realms of "possibly true but possibly hearsay" that dogs so much of meaningful discissions of cases like Bible John, but it's all true.


          That's certainly interesting Barn. It sounds like he was a serious suspect. This is another case that's overdue for really good overview book on the case assessing all of the theories and suspects.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes



          "Tis but a part we see, and not a whole."

          ”Baroni licitum est dicere troglodytam”

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

            interesting barn
            was your friend one of the investigators on the bible john case? how old was he in 69?
            I have no idea if he worked on the case or not.
            He was about 10 years older than me, so I think he would have been a serving police officer in 1968-69.

            As I said, if anyone tried to pump him for info re any past or present cases, he would just freeze them out.
            He died about 6 years ago, he was a real old fashioned cop, and judging by the number of past and serving police officers who turned up at his funeral, he was a much respected one.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post

              I have no idea if he worked on the case or not.
              He was about 10 years older than me, so I think he would have been a serving police officer in 1968-69.

              As I said, if anyone tried to pump him for info re any past or present cases, he would just freeze them out.
              He died about 6 years ago, he was a real old fashioned cop, and judging by the number of past and serving police officers who turned up at his funeral, he was a much respected one.
              ok thanks barn. i think his opinion then, should hold a certain amount of sway. and i agree with herlock, seems this case needs a definitive book!
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • #52
                Hi Barn
                Wasn't McInnes officially cleared by the DNA evidence?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                  Hi Barn
                  Wasn't McInnes officially cleared by the DNA evidence?
                  Hi Josh, Have a look at my post #41.

                  McInnes wasn't in my opinion "cleared" by the DNA comparison.

                  The official wording in the DNA comparison says "There is not sufficient evidence for the current DNA information to link John McInnes to the murder of Helen Puttock." (my emphasis)

                  My reading of the above statement is that McInnes could not be ruled out of involvement in the murder of Helen Puttock.

                  P.S. Apologies for moving this thread off the Zodiac crimes.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Ok!

                    To bring things back to the Zodiac.....

                    I've seen the Jake Gyllenhaal film, but that's the sum total of my "knowledge" of this case.

                    This thread has rather piqued my interest.

                    Is there a good general book on the case (kind of a Sugden or Begg: The Facts equivalent) that anyone would recommend?

                    Or a documentary which gives a good overview?

                    Any recommendations appreciated!





                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post
                      Ok!

                      To bring things back to the Zodiac.....

                      I've seen the Jake Gyllenhaal film, but that's the sum total of my "knowledge" of this case.

                      This thread has rather piqued my interest.

                      Is there a good general book on the case (kind of a Sugden or Begg: The Facts equivalent) that anyone would recommend?

                      Or a documentary which gives a good overview?

                      Any recommendations appreciated!




                      hi diddles
                      umfortunately there is no sugden like book on the subject. Zodiac by graysmith is the best IMHO but he favors Arthur Leigh Allen heavily so its kind of a suspect book. dont confuse it with zodiac unmasked, his second book on the subject, which i wouldnt reccomend as he starts to reealy over speculate.

                      i would start by reading the wikipedia page on the zodiac and branch out from there. it is an extremely fascinating case.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                        hi diddles
                        umfortunately there is no sugden like book on the subject. Zodiac by graysmith is the best IMHO but he favors Arthur Leigh Allen heavily so its kind of a suspect book. dont confuse it with zodiac unmasked, his second book on the subject, which i wouldnt reccomend as he starts to reealy over speculate.

                        i would start by reading the wikipedia page on the zodiac and branch out from there. it is an extremely fascinating case.
                        Thanks for the tip, Abby!

                        I'll have a poke about on Wikipedia and a look at the Graysmith book on Amazon.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post
                          Ok!

                          To bring things back to the Zodiac.....

                          I've seen the Jake Gyllenhaal film, but that's the sum total of my "knowledge" of this case.

                          This thread has rather piqued my interest.

                          Is there a good general book on the case (kind of a Sugden or Begg: The Facts equivalent) that anyone would recommend?

                          Or a documentary which gives a good overview?

                          Any recommendations appreciated!




                          Hey Ms D, yeah,let's get back to Zodiac.

                          I can only echo what Abby has said above.

                          There is no definitive book on the topic.
                          Graysmith gives a good overview of the case, and his book is certainly readable, but he does play fast and loose with some facts.
                          Check out my post #29 on this thread which gives a link to a rebuttal of Graysmith's many porkies.
                          Take the time to wander through the whole website, it's a fascinating and well presented analysis of the case.

                          There are 2 books on the Zodiac case that you might want to consider.
                          I attach links to them on Amazon below.
                          It would be interesting to know what you think of the Zodiac case/suspects once you get up to speed on it.

                          https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                          https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post

                            Hey Ms D, yeah,let's get back to Zodiac.

                            I can only echo what Abby has said above.

                            There is no definitive book on the topic.
                            Graysmith gives a good overview of the case, and his book is certainly readable, but he does play fast and loose with some facts.
                            Check out my post #29 on this thread which gives a link to a rebuttal of Graysmith's many porkies.
                            Take the time to wander through the whole website, it's a fascinating and well presented analysis of the case.

                            There are 2 books on the Zodiac case that you might want to consider.
                            I attach links to them on Amazon below.
                            It would be interesting to know what you think of the Zodiac case/suspects once you get up to speed on it.

                            https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                            https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                            That's great, Barn!

                            Many thanks!

                            Much appreciated.

                            This thread has certainly caused me to prick up my ears.

                            I'll have a look around and invest in a book or two.

                            To be honest, I'm currently super busy with assignments for a course I'm doing , so I already have Christer's book, Trevor's "The Real Truth" and "Jacob the Ripper" all sitting neatly in a pile awaiting my attention!

                            Zodiac books will be added to this pile and I'll get to them eventually!

                            I will indeed let you know my thoughts once I've ploughed through the material.

                            I'm a total noobie to this case, so unlikely to have any profound revelations after reading a couple of books, but you never know!

                            Maybe it will spark my latent Miss Marple!!!


                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I'm a total noobie to this case, so unlikely to have any profound revelations after reading a couple of books, but you never know!

                              Maybe it will spark my latent Miss Marple!!!


                              Hey Ms D, it's exactly because your new to the case that you'll probably be able to bring some fresh insight to the case.
                              We can all get bogged down in the minutiae, so we all need "newbies" to bring new perspectives to it.

                              Good luck with the assignments.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
                                I'm a total noobie to this case, so unlikely to have any profound revelations after reading a couple of books, but you never know!

                                Maybe it will spark my latent Miss Marple!!!


                                Hey Ms D, it's exactly because your new to the case that you'll probably be able to bring some fresh insight to the case.
                                We can all get bogged down in the minutiae, so we all need "newbies" to bring new perspectives to it.

                                Good luck with the assignments.
                                Thanks Barn!

                                I've just ordered one of the books you recommended (the other was out of stock), and I've ordered the Graysmith one which Abby recommended too.

                                Successfully complete Housing Law Course
                                Solve Ripper
                                Solve Zodiac
                                Reacquaint myself with having a social life post lock down.

                                Ooooooofftt! 2021 is looking busy!

                                Comment

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