Hammersmith Nude Murders (Stripper)

[sdreid]

All the best Jeff.

I believe that Monday the 16th is the 50th anniversary of the finding of O'Hara's remains which, although no-one knew it at the time, effectively, was the end of the case.

[Jeff Leahy]

Harold Jones and Suspect sketch

Why I was digging through the thread I noticed two attachments put up by Stan Reid with interest and printed them out.

The ID photo was released by Police and the last man seen with Francis Brown.

Apart from the ears sticking out a little further and the man obviously being older and more hair, has anyone noticed the remarkable similarity?

Check the Nose and the Eyes brows!!!

The later ID shot is someone older and heavier, and Jones looks like Zamo from Grange Hill, but I'd never really considered this closely before

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

H Division Crime Club opening lecture

Hi Everyone

I've spent the last few days preparing a new lecture on the Hammersmith Nude Murders and will be launching it at the new H Division Crime club on the 7th March in London.
I believe the venue has been recently revised so I ail try and update that but if anyone can help that would be cool.

For some years I've been aware that factual information, on the way these women actually died, has been fairly thin on the ground. The only real references being Niel Milkins 'Who was Jack the Stripper' David Seabrookes 'Jack of Jumps' and Brian McConnell's 'Found Naked and Dead'

What I've attempted to do for this lecture is collate all the known coroner information, bruises, marks , cuts etc. When and where the victims were last seen alive, when found, the positions of the bodies, anomalies (Inserted objects) and of course the mystery of the missing teeth.

Actually I have discovered some new anomalies over the last few days including the mystery of the position of Elizabeth Figg's body.

I'm not going to cover the suspects or various theories as Neil Milkin is also appearing and will probably cover that in more detail. What I am going to do at the end however is outline why I no longer believe the murders could have been carried out by the main suspect in the case John Du Roses security Guard or Brian McConnells 'Big John' named by David Seabrooke as Mungo Ireland.

Hope to see you on the 7th March 2015

Yours Jeff Leahy
Producer/Director

[sdreid]

50 years ago this coming Sunday, the 11th, was the last time that the final victim Bridie O'Hara was seen alive. Her body was found in the middle of February.

[Carotid Capers]

Thanks for the reply Stan, yes, I see your point, it's just that a lot of the girls were either going with black men or ended up at these Caribbean jazz clubs smoking hash roll ups last thing at the end of their shift? Don't recall chap in alleyway who dumped body being IDd as white though? I will take your word for it though? R u referring to the chap acting suspiciously around the boot of his car in a west end alleyway who was observed by the nocturnal painters and decorators and then realising he'd been seen, fled sharpish? And does anyone know if the blowjob bouncer brute from Archibald's Holland park drinking club was either IDd or named? Presumably he was interviewed?

[sdreid]

Hi CC:

Good points.

I in no way claim to be an expert on this case just that I'm old enough to remember the case in the news when it was occurring.

Regarding your questions, I'm in the dark on some of them as well but I don't know about others.

On a couple, if I remember correctly, Jeff found out the Ireland (Big John) only worked at the security guard job for a couple of weeks right at the end of the murders so I think that lowers his stock considerably. Victims had been kept on his jobsite long before that.

As for a potential West Indian killer, I can only say that, to my knowledge, all the men last seen with the women were white as was, I believe, the man seen rushing out of the ally after presumably dumping a body.

[Carotid Capers]

Apologies ahold have proof read the previous post, unwanted auto correct has made it confusing. That should've read FELATE them with regards to holland park tennis club illegal drinking pub bouncer. And that should've really MrSeabrookes police suspect ( cushway, was it?) and , embarrassing as it is, what does everyone make of the choking/gagging to death via felatio explanation favoured by de Rose? Gobblers gulch was known for this practise I I believe? Were the teeth removed post mortem to offer less jagged oral access for this purpose by the killer? Post motem fatio seems to b quite common amongst these psycho sex killers, like Ted Bundy and the boyfriend of carol Bundy, that horrid chap who's name I can't recall ? He would also sever heads and keep them for this purpose...apologies for the gross nature of this post but it is Germaine to the issue?

[Carotid Capers]

Hi all, I've now read all three books on this case, and found them all very informative and all very different. Me sea rooks former police suspect I think is unlikely, minor pulp hearing and break ins and no former sex crime don't suggest it was him. Mr Milkins' excellent book suggests Jones, and dispicabke as his childhood sex murders were, I see him as just too old in the early 60s? Big john / Ireland is compelling as it's weird he would kill himself over an impending traffic violation court hearing? Being in Scotland during one latter abduction is a problem though? I have a few questions for the experts here like mr. Leahy, Reid and APWOKFE etc, 1/Why did McDonnell have Ireland gas himself in his oven when truth is different? 2/ was the bouncer from the Hilland park tennis illegal drinking pub ever seriously checked out? The chap who chucked out the pissed up prossies out after 3 chances and then beat them and forced them to relate him till they nearly choked? In light of the likely fact that the dead women died in this manner immediately flicked on alarm bells for me when I came across this charmer in the late mr. Seabrooks' book? 3/ APWolfes' compelling and quite logical theory that a West Indian man is the likeliest of culprits for me was fascinating, has anyone chased this up further? And as a boxing fan I thought there may b a link between Figgs ponce Ward, a Caribbean heavy pugilist and the clique of homicidal, musing injustice West Indian psychos like Rachman , the edge and Magic man? Were these chaps involved in the noble art either in London or w.indies? Just a thought. Thanks for your time and again thanks for all these fascinating posts and theories, keep em coming, the victims deserve resolution and recognition

[louisa]

Hi,

I would love to read the Neil Milkins book about Harold Jones but it seems to be out of print everywhere. I think I saw one hardback on Amazon for £40 but I can't afford that. Does anyone know where I could obtain a copy? I'd be happy with a used one. Thanks.

[sdreid]

This coming Tuesday, the 25th, marks the 50th anniversary of the finding of Margaret McGowan's remains.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Everyone. Been off the radar recently owing to diabetes which is now under control. I am still convinced that Harold Jones was involved in the Hammersmith nudes' murders and I am now on his trail again. For anyone who doesn't have Sky TV, you may be interested in knowing that the Fred Dinenage Murder Casebook episode on Harold Jones and the Hammersmith nudes' murders has since May 2014 been shown as a 45 minute documentary on the Internet. You need to google - Harold Jones - killer. It has had 23,000 hits in the last few weeks averaging 500 hits a day recently. (Pass the word darlings.) Anyone wishing to contact me can get me at n.milkin@sky.com

Regards. Neil.

Its great to have you back Neil, I've been doing more research. I'm particularly interested in John Burrows the copper who investigated Stephen Ward. I wonder if pressure was put on Mrs Ireland following the death of Mungo? However you see things it now seems unlikely Mungo Ireland was the Killer.

I'm also chasing the National Archive who have refused permission to view negatives found on Helen Bethalemy.

Would still like to meet and chat if you are in London. Would love to film you if you are available.

Great to have you back

Yours Jeff

PS sorry to here about Diabetes

[Neil Milkins]

Harold Jones: Welsh child killer.

Hi Everyone. Been off the radar recently owing to diabetes which is now under control. I am still convinced that Harold Jones was involved in the Hammersmith nudes' murders and I am now on his trail again. For anyone who doesn't have Sky TV, you may be interested in knowing that the Fred Dinenage Murder Casebook episode on Harold Jones and the Hammersmith nudes' murders has since May 2014 been shown as a 45 minute documentary on the Internet. You need to google - Harold Jones - killer. It has had 23,000 hits in the last few weeks averaging 500 hits a day recently. (Pass the word darlings.) Anyone wishing to contact me can get me at n.milkin@sky.com

Regards. Neil.

[GUT]

Monday will be the 50th anniversary of the finding of victim Mary Fleming.

Joe's Granddaughter

[sdreid]

Monday will be the 50th anniversary of the finding of victim Mary Fleming.

[Jeff Leahy]

I think photographs would certainly have been taken at the murder scenes. In files on other cases from the early 1950s which I looked at for comparison during my FOI request, there were always photographs present. Those were the DPP's files, not the police records, and they were prints rather than negatives. But it would make sense for the police to retain negatives in case they were needed in the event of a trial.

TNA have argued that releasing photographs showing the body would be distressing to the victim's family and therefore would be covered by the section 38 exemption. However, very many files on murders at least from the 1950s have been routinely opened by TNA, and these normally include photographs of the body. The viewpoint almost seems to be that it's fine for TNA to cause distress to the families of victims, so long as it's not the result of a Freedom of Information request.

Neil Melkin made considerable effort to track down the surviving family members. Most of the victims had young children and theres many tragic stories particularly Francis Browns family.

But would having permission from Helen Barthelemy's family make a difference? Bear in mind that they wouldnt actually have know her, but I understand the emotional connection.

Its interesting you say you;d expect photos of crime scenes rather than negatives? Its surely what you would expect

Many thanks

Jeff