kennedy assassination

[dougie]

Phyrne
Some have said that the Carcano rifle is not that bad a rifle..I admit I dont know,Im not really up on that kind of thing,but I dont think anyone would disagree that it wasnt the best rifle around at that time.I guess though ,that if the assassination was funded by the mafia,cia or oil barons or lyndon johnson, they would at least have provided the best weapons available.Also of course if a proffessional assassin brought his own rifle,I doubt that hed have brought a Carcano,and certainly not a Carcano with no telescopic sight or a defective one
Of course if the assassination was executed (excuse the pun) by Oswald and a partner,then I guess the picture changes somewhat.Having said that ,there is plenty of evidence to show Oswald acted alone,but none at all to suggest he had any help.What exactly this new evidence might suggest Im not sure.....I didnt understand it fully either but if there is anything substantial to it Im sure we will be hearing about it soon.
kind regards

[Phryne Fisher]

Good point, dougie. I don't know how many kinds of rifle there are, but if there are lots, and that type is not very good, I guess it would quite a coincidence.

As for the research, I read the full document today, and hardly understood a word of it Bit too scientific for me

[dougie]

Im assuming that would mean,if correct, that two assassins would both have used the same make of rifle?...a Carcano...odd choice really isnt it? Not the best weapon to use for the biggest assassination in american history. Maybe interesting findings though.......
regards

[Phryne Fisher]

An interesting development...

These guys:

http://projecteuclid.org/DPubS?verb=...19&page=record


have won the American Statistical Association's "2008 Statistics in Chemistry Award".

I've only looked at the abstract: my poor little computer would have a conniption fit if I tried to download that PDF, but I hope to have a quick dekko at work tomorrow.

[dougie]

Perry,
The bullets that killed kennedy were fired from the rifle owned,bought signed for and addressed to oswalds mail box to the proven exclusion of any other weapon. It was the same rifle identified by marina oswald as belonging to oswald....the rifle was stored in ruths paines garage prior to oswalds last visit to the paines residence...it left the same time as oswald left......it was the same rifle photographed in oswalds hands,detailed photographic examination has proved that beyond all doubt . Osawld denied ever having owned a rifle,when its known he did,again beyonfd all doubt. Now why didnt this "patsy"..this innocent guy even say to the police.."yes it was my rifle,but it was stolen from my car or whatever".....instead of denying what everyone knew?Actions of an innocent man?There is so much evidence which clearly shows oswald was the assassin,over 50 seperate pieces of physical and non-physical evidence connect him to both tippits and kennedys murders....if oswald was set up....then presumabley ruth paine was in on it too? she arranged oswalds interview...so she must have been....roy truly the book depository overseer ? how about him? when oswald started his employment a few weeks before,he began alongside several others who started the same day....now from that batch of new employees ,some were detailed to work at another warehouse a few blocks away (not on the motorcade route) ..oswald however was designated to work at the depository ....so it follows that ,that must have been part of the conspiracy too?Was the guy (i cant recall the name) who identified a man fitting oswalds description standing at book depository window with a rifle,to the police part of it too....were the two black co-workers who at a lower floor of the depository stated that the shots came from above them lying too..and "in on it"?....Who-ever orchestrated this conspiracy had not only to organise the assassins,the positions which they could fire from without being detected, had to "arrange" for oswald to get a job at the book depository,bribe 90%of the dallas police force,the parkland hospital surgeons, and last but not least every member of the warren commission. as i said its too silly for words
regards

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Good Michael!

Yet there is one thing, that makes some people wonder;

Could it have been a coincidence, that Robert Kennedy was killed a few years later too?!

All the best
Jukka

[The Good Michael]

Michael,

As others have said, Posner's book seals the deal. Yet, others present good arguments, and much like Ripper suspect-based books, not one should be believed in a vacuum. Still, I don't believe in conspiracies aside from shared corporate wealth via war machines ala Cheney and his ilk, but including all politicians. That is different from murder conspiracies whose collaborations are next to impossible to keep secret. The kinds of people that can conspire to kill, are people who can't be trusted in the long run, to keep it all hush hush, and so, there should be a trail of bodies to follow or ever increasing amounts of money. This isn't so with Kennedy.

Cheers,

Mike

Hi Dougie, all,

Suffice to say that there is no forensic data that showed Oswald fired ANY rifle that day, so "patsy" would be a non-participant set up to take the Fall for someone or agency. A man that worked in a building that was one of the three triangulation points for the shooters, who was a known Communist sympathizer and had prior military training, so some sharpshooting capabilities.

As for who benefitted if so.....take a look at all the indivudual issues I mentioned, there are more, and youll start to see that Kennedy was loved by the people, not the powers that be, took from the military budgets to shoot for the moon before 1970, and was the president who almost contemplated nukes with Communists.

JFK was a great man, a great orator and a great leader of a nation. His bravery and courage were tested with PT109, and with many other events like the loss of his older brother, ......but he was a man that had his own ways of doings things, a confident man who didnt bow to any politicians, domestic or international, to get along, and his most treasured advice was that of his brother's...a man bent on removing power and assets from Organized Crime. While JFK dated a mob bosses chick.

There were lots of people that wanted John dead, for lots of very lucrative and strategic reasons.

Best regards.

[dougie]

If a conspiracy existed,and if part of that conspiracy involved setting up oswald as a "patsy",then it was a very "BrittLE "plan. What if oswald had not gone to work that day? What if oswald had watched the parade together with his workmates?What if oswald had decided to stand outside the depository and watch the parade pass by,as a few of the employees did?And if oswald was a patsy why did he act in the way he did immediately after the assassination, why did he shoot tippit?why did he give the clenched fist salute to reporters when arriving at the police station? where can anyone find any sign of an innocent man in oswalds actions?
If as perry suggests there were shooters on the grassy knoll,to the left,to the right,why did no-one see them? why did no sign of these guys show up in photographs taken that day,?
And if oswald was part of this conspiracy (as a shooter) funded by the mafia or the cia or oil barons etc ,wouldnt it be sensible to think that these guys would have at the very least provided oswald with a decent rifle?and not a mail order second rate weapon? And it is known with absolute certainty that oswalds rifle was the rifle which fired those bullets..theres no doubt about it.So either oswald fuired at kennedy with that rifle ..or he didnt..if he didnt then someone else did with the express purpose of implicating oswald via the rifle mailed to him and signed for by him...its ludicrous..think of the logistics involved in just that part of the conspiracy......let alone the rest of it......
As for the question who would benefit?..well the russians wouldnt have for a start,why risk nuclear war if the plot was discovered?and if kennedy was out of the way ,russia would still have to deal with his successor..its silly.
The mafia likewise.....
But ok if a conspiracy is suspected,a conspiracy by the way which would be probabley the biggest conspiracyn in american history....where is the evidence? one sensible,logical ,verifiable shred of evidence to suggest that it existed? im afraid there isnt......most of it is really too silly for words.
regards

[sdreid]

Dang Craig and here I thought Haliburton was involved. Thanks for setting me straight. I did have the part right about the aliens from Roswell though.

[CraigInTwinCities]

Hello all,

...Who would benifit? The military machine....the Russians, Johnson was a domestic politics man primarily...and the Mob. Also the power brokers in Washington made impotent by Kennedy's single mindedness. Joint effort? Who knows. But I think a conspiracy, not a lone gunman.

Best regards all.

Perry,

I've gone down the conspiracy route and it leads to madness, or worse... becoming Oliver Stone (the most severe form of mental illness, save for the Michael Moore stage, which is terminal).

My mind cleared considerably after reading the very clear-minded CASE CLOSED by Gerald Posner. The overwhelming weight of evidence is on the lone gunman side of the equation. That's where facts are, as opposed to, "Gee, that sounds convincing," speculation.

Of course, my favorite conspiracy theory is as follows:

The real power behind the Kennedy Assassination was a fellow named Blixtar Six. Who's he?

Well, Blixtar Six was the product of Nazi genetic experiments - continued by Stalin - on breeding an army of super-soldiers off the DNA of Jack the Ripper and a number of other subjects.

One of the scientists involved defected to America and combined some smuggled JtR DNA with DNA from the aliens captured and held hostage by the US government in Area 51.

Blixtar Six was the most human-looking of those experiments, and was in his early 20s in 1966. He escaped government custody and shot JFK from several positions and dimensions in space and time simultaneously, to ensure an end to the president's life.

(Blixtar Six, you see, was a bit of a problem child. His motive for offing JFK was a budgetary denial of Vanilla Ice Cream at Area 51. Blixtar Six loved his Vanilla Ice Cream, and every president from LBJ on has made sure never to cross him again... though Reagan tried.)

In recent years, Blixtar Six, who does not age in the same way as you or I, has settled down a bit and integrated more smoothly back into society.

You might be familiar with him by his public name: Joe Biden.

edit......I forgot to mention Connellys seat was slightly lowered as well....and I should spell-check, cause ben"i"fit is spelled ben"e"fit. Pardonez Moi.

Au revoir mes amis.

Hello all,

The Magic Bullet issue has been addressed in recent years, I believe post 2k. It seems that the angle of the bullet was actually rather as expected...but the Warren Commission didnt know that the car had been prepared for the drive by adjusting Connelly's seat in towards the driver side by 5 inches, thereby letting the president slip in and out more easily from the back seat, and be seen easier from the front right and sides. He never got the chance to use the exit feature though.

That explains the trajectory issues with Connellys back, wrist and thigh.

Ive read a dozen or so books on this, and other articles, and I cant escape the feeling that Oswald was just what he said he was...."a patsy". And there are only two avenues for sharpshooters of that calibre, military service or ex-miltary Soldiers of Fortune.

The mob wanted both Kennedy's dead...mostly Robert, and if they decided to take him out, they could have. But the absence of urgency to continue and explore all other avenues other than Oswald make me wonder whether there were men on the grassy knoll in suits, one in the Depository, and maybe one to the front left of the car as it rounded the corner. To my eye the Zapruder film clearly shows the second hit rocked his head back...and in the autopsy photos released a while back, there is no apparent massive head wound on his forehead, exit or entrance...which the film shows, literally explodes open. There is the one behind his ear.

I think what we saw was a coup....to destroy the link between President and Attorney General, to lessen the Attorneys powers, to continue the war effort in Viet Nam...which Johnson did, and kept the huge arms manufacturers and military supply sources happy, and to end the rogue president era...when the President was closer to his brother the Attorney General, than he was the Senate or Cabinet. He was not known as a "team player".

Who would benifit? The military machine....the Russians, Johnson was a domestic politics man primarily...and the Mob. Also the power brokers in Washington made impotent by Kennedy's single mindedness. Joint effort? Who knows. But I think a conspiracy, not a lone gunman.

Best regards all.

[dougie]

Graham,
Its easy to come to those conclusions from some of the literature out there..trouble is a lotof that literature consists of blatant lies and conclusions drawn from those same lies......The reality is very much different..the place of the post mortem can be explained,the ruby affair,oswalds russian visa and supposed rushed exit and entrance to russia also...The warren report wasnt rushed,in fact the detail,and the scope of their enquiry left practically no stone unturned......but im only going over old ground I suspect now.But anyway I wasnt there so my conclusions might be just as invalid as anyone elses I guess.
regards

[Graham]

Not that it matters now, but the two things that suggest to me that there was some kind of conspiracy are:

1] the apparent ease with which Oswald went to, and eventually left, the Soviet Union. Maybe this doesn't point to a JFK conspiracy per se, but to my mind it does suggest that Oswald had some kind of sponsor in the US (and maybe the Russian) intelligence services.

2] the fact that Oswald was bumped off by a man with known mob, and possible CIA, connections before he could be fully interrogated and brought to trial. Ruby's statement that 'he did it for Jackie' rings rather hollow...

3] the fact that JFK's post-mortem was carried out other than in the place in which he was murdered which, I believe, is contrary to federal US law and suggests to me that there were aspects of his killing that were considered necessary to cover up.

4] the speed with which the Warren Commission published its report. I always felt that they were under heavy pressure to get it done and dusted as quickly as possible, before too many questions were asked.

Just my thoughts, nothing more.

Graham