When Flying Saucers Attack!

[Celesta]

There is supposed to be some big press conference on UFO's today. I didn't hear about it until last night. Anyone heard any details? I saw Larry King, or at least part of it, last night and UFO's and the press conference was the topic.

Have a nice week, Gang.

[Mike Covell]

There is supposed to be some big press conference on UFO's today. I didn't hear about it until last night. Anyone heard any details? I saw Larry King, or at least part of it, last night and UFO's and the press conference was the topic.

Have a nice week, Gang.

Sounds rather ominous, but i am excited, I have my tinfoil hat at the ready!!

"Take me to your leader"

[Celesta]

I haven't been able to find out what it was all about as I haven't been near the TV, what with things I had to do today. I thought you guys might know something.

There were a group of men, two at least who had been at the air force base. Colonel Halt and I forgot the second one's name. There were two others with him and a few people they talked to via satellite. And of all people, Shirley MacClaine.

[Celesta]

Tesla's death ray... From my reading I can think of two possibilities. The least likely is that it was some sort of particle beam - an "electron gun" if you will. (NOT a laser, more like the inside of the picture tube of a CRT-type of TV.) This is the least likely because of the difficulty of keeping a stream of electrons tightly focused for any great distance beyond the weapon's aperture (by this I mean the business end, the opening -or the electrode- where the beam comes out of the weapon.) Once the beam of electrons leave the electromagnetic fields used to focus them, they'd spread out - or snake around like a lightning bolt.

The most likely of the two possibilities I've come up with is that the death ray was akin to microwaves. Tesla would have been using his version of radar to locate the target, then step up the power and change the frequency to create a microwave "searchlight" to fry the target.

Of course, I'm oversimplifying and probably totally off base with these speculations. Is there a Scientist in the house?

Vila

Hi Dan,

I cut this from Wiki for you. As you can see, the invention of radio is a bit contentious(sp?). Tesla demonstrated radio waves, as you will see below, but radio was worked on by a number of people. Will be back with the rest in a minute.


[I][/ Further information: Invention of radio

Although invention was long attributed to Guglielmo Marconi, the identity of the original inventor of radio, at the time called wireless telegraphy, is contentious[1]. Development from a laboratory demonstration to commercial utility spanned several decades and required the efforts of many practitioners. The controversy over who invented the radio, with the benefit of hindsight, can be broken down as follows:

* In 1887, David E. Hughes transmitted signals by radio using a clockwork-keyed Spark Transmitter, achieving a range of approximately 500 metres.
* In 1888, Heinrich Hertz produced and measured the Ultra High Frequency range (via a sparkgap transmitter).
* In 1891, Nikola Tesla began wireless research. He developed means to reliably produce radio frequencies, publicly demonstrated the principles of radio, and transmitted long-distance signals.
* Between 1893 and 1894, Roberto Landell de Moura, a Brazilian priest and scientist, conducted experiments. He did not publicise his achievement until 1900 but later obtained Brazilian patent.
* In 1894 in Kolkata (Calcutta), Sir Jagdish Chandra Bose (J. C. Bose) invented the mercury coherer, together with the telephone receiver.
* Alexander Stepanovich Popov, in 1894, built his first radio receiver, which contained a coherer but actually coherer was first invented by Edouard Branly. Popov demonstrated the coherer, further refined as a lightning detector, to the Russian Physical and Chemical Society on May 7, 1895.
* In 1894, Guglielmo Marconi read about Hertz's and Tesla's work on wireless telegraphy, and began his own experiments.
* In December of 1901 Guglielmo Marconi used J.C. Bose's inventions to receive the radio signal in his first transatlantic radio communication over a distance of 2,000 miles (3,200 km) from Poldhu, UK, to St. Johns, Newfoundland. Marconi was celebrated worldwide for this achievement. Soon after the patent was given to Marconi. He even received the Nobel Prize.
* In early 1900s Reginald Fessenden [2] and Lee de Forest invented amplitude-modulated (AM) radio) allowing an audio signal to be sent over the air.
* In 1935 Edwin H. Armstrong invented frequency-modulated (FM) radio, so that an audio signal can avoid "static," that is, interference from electrical equipment and atmospherics.
* In 1943, the U.S. Supreme Court acknowledged that Marconi's work wasn't original, and the patent ownership is given back to Nikola Tesla. However, Tesla died shortly before the decision was announced.[1]

[Celesta]

Hi Dan,

More Radio from Wiki:

Radio is the transmission of signals, by modulation of electromagnetic waves with frequencies below those of visible light. Electromagnetic radiation travels by means of oscillating electromagnetic fields that pass through the air and the vacuum of space. Early speculation that this required a medium of transport, called luminiferous aether, were found to be false. Information is carried by systematically changing (modulating) some property of the radiated waves, such as their amplitude or their frequency. When radio waves pass an electrical conductor, the oscillating fields induce an alternating current in the conductor. This can be detected and transformed into sound or other signals that carry information.

James Clerk Maxwell, a Scottish scientist, developed the theoretical basis for explaining electromagnetism. He predicted that electric and magnetic fields can couple together to form electromagnetic waves. Heinrich Hertz, a German scientist, is credited with being the first to produce and detect such waves at radio frequencies, in 1888, using a sparkgap transmitter in the Ultra High Frequency range.

In 1893, Nikola Tesla, in America, first demonstrated the feasibility of wireless communications. Guglielmo Marconi, an Italian inventor, was one of the first to develop commercial workable radio communication. It is supposed that he sent and received his first radio signal in Italy in 1895.

[Celesta]

Still more on the radio:

For more details on this topic, see History of radio.

Tesla demonstrating wireless transmissions during his high frequency and potential lecture of 1891. After continued research, Tesla gave the fundamentals of radio in 1893.
Tesla demonstrating wireless transmissions during his high frequency and potential lecture of 1891. After continued research, Tesla gave the fundamentals of radio in 1893.

In 1893, in St. Louis, Missouri, Nikola Tesla made devices for his experiments with electricity. Addressing the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia and the National Electric Light Association, he described and demonstrated in detail the principles of his wireless work. [3] The descriptions contained all the elements that were later incorporated into radio systems before the development of the vacuum tube. He initially experimented with magnetic receivers, unlike the coherers (detecting devices consisting of tubes filled with iron filings which had been invented by Temistocle Calzecchi-Onesti at Fermo in Italy in 1884) used by Guglielmo Marconi and other early experimenters. [4].

The first public demonstration of wireless telegraphy took place in the lecture theater of the Oxford University Museum of Natural History on August 14, 1894, carried out by Professor Oliver Lodge and Alexander Muirhead. During the demonstration a radio signal was sent from the neighboring Clarendon laboratory building, and received by apparatus in the lecture theater.

In 1895 Alexander Stepanovich Popov built his first radio receiver, which contained a coherer. Further refined as a lightning detector, it was presented to the Russian Physical and Chemical Society on May 7, 1895. A depiction of Popov's lightning detector was printed in the Journal of the Russian Physical and Chemical Society the same year. Popov's receiver was created on the improved basis of Lodge's receiver, and originally intended for reproduction of its experiments.[2]

In 1896, Marconi was awarded the British patent 12039, Improvements in transmitting electrical impulses and signals and in apparatus there-for, for radio. In 1897 he established the world's first radio station on the Isle of Wight, England. Marconi opened the world's first "wireless" factory in Hall Street, Chelmsford, England in 1898, employing around 50 people.

[Mayerling]

Hi all,

One man summed up the problem of precedence in wireless best: "Mr. Marconi is a donkey!", Tesla is reported as having said on the subject in one of his biographies.

However, the recent Erik Larsen book (which I recommend) THUNDERSTRUCK
(about Marconi and Dr. Crippen) is quite informative about the Anglo - Italian
inventor and his successes and failures.

As for the death ray of Nikola - I believe that if any 20th Century brain could have made one he could have. Oddly enough Mussolini mentioned that Senator Marconi (as he was a Fascist Senator at the end of his life - so was
the composer Puccini) was working on a death ray when he died in 1937.

You mentioned another controversy. Remember that Marconi and Tesla are the two (with Fessenden and the others) involved in "wireless". But the developement of radio, in particular A.M. caused a major collision involving
Lee de Forrest (the inventor of the "audion" that was the necessary device to transmit voices through the air) and the brilliant scientist Edwin Armstrong.
De Forrest was an educated man, but hardly with the engineering degrees and background of Armstrong. The former was more of a lucky tinkerer. He never understood how the "audion" worked, while Armstrong did. However, in one of his most questionable opinions on patents (which he didn't know a damn thing about - he had no knowledge of science and technology) Justice Benjamin Cardozo, when head of the New York Court of Appeals, ruled in favor of de Forrest. It was a pyric victory - no scientist congradulated de Forrest. As for Armstrong, he decided to create his own version of radio - he created F.M. Unfortunately, a later patent battle with David Sarnoff of RCA led Armstrong into bankruptcy and then suicide. His wife later won the patent suit.

A good book on the developement of Radio and the contributions of de Forrest, Armstrong, and Sarnoff is EMPIRE OF THE AIR.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[Magpie]

Tesla may have also taken the first X-ray while experimenting with microwaves, although he didn't realize what it was or the implications.

When X-rays were presented to the scientific community, he didn't hesitate to concede credit and congratulate their "inventor".

[Mike Covell]

Morning all,

The Rendlesham Incident happened in 1980 and the two main witnesses were,
Col. Charles Halt
Larry Warren

Here are some questions which were posed in the House of Lords on the Incident.
23 Jan 2001 : Column WA7

Blundeston Prison and Hollesley Bay YCC (now YOI - Young Offenders Institution):

Possible Evacuation Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether staff at Blundeston Prison or Hollesley Bay Youth Correction Centre received any instructions to prepare for a possible evacuation at some time between 25 and 30 December 1980; and if so, why these instructions were issued.[HL319]

23 Jan 2001 : Column WA8

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Bassam of Brighton): We can find no record of any such instructions.

G.Bruni Comments: Lord Hill -Norton asked a similar Question a few years ago concerning Highpoint prison. The Answer was that the warden's log for that period was no longer available. The reason for these Questions was because a prison officer had claimed that Highpoint had been on alert for evacuation on 27 December 1980. Since then (see my book) I have learnt of two more local prisons that were said to be on alert (as above). I am not satisfied with the Answer and hope that Lord Hill-Norton will ask it again in more detail. We need to know why they can find no records. Have these logs gone missing too and, if so, why?




25 Jan 2001 : Columns WA21/22 Rendlesham Forest Incident

Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are aware of any involvement by Special Branch personnel in the investigation of the 1980 Rendlesham Forest incident.[HL303]

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: Special Branch officers may have been aware of the incident but would not have shown an interest unless there was evidence of a potential threat to national security. No such interest appears to have been shown.

G.Bruni Comments: According to the Deputy Base Commander of AFOSI RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge (at time of incident) Special Branch would have been alerted. My argument is that the incident was a threat to national security because these objects were intruding on British territory and could have been anything from Soviet craft to terrorists, therefore SB should have at least checked out the incident before passing it over to another agency. The commander actually offered the names of the SB officers that would have had this information. I did not publish their names for obvious reasons. If no interest was shown then we must question our security agencies.




Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether personnel from Porton Down visited Rendlesham Forest or the area surrounding RAF Walton in December 1980 or January 1981; and whether they are aware of any tests carried out in either of those two areas aimed at assessing any nuclear, biological or chemical hazard.[HL301]

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: The staff at the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) Chemical and Biological Defence (CBD) laboratories at Porton Down have made a thorough search of their archives and have found no record of any such visits.

G.Brini Comments: That should have been RAF "Watton" not Walton. According to my witness from RAF Watton, some agency, presumably from Porton Down, did visit Watton and investigate the area on the perimeter of the base. Then the question is, if they were not from Porton Down, which is the place one would expect it to be, where was the unit from? I expect like the first Answer, any reference to this event has been carefully logged elsewhere.




Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are aware of any uncorrelated targets tracked on radar in November or December 1980; and whether they will give details of any such incidents.[HL302]

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: Records dating from 1980 no longer exist. Paper records are retained for a period of three years before being destroyed. Recordings of radar data are retained for a period of thirty days prior to re-use of the recording medium.

G.Bruni Comments: It is a fact that radar tracking tapes are re-used but there should be paper records. If this is the case then why was researcher Nick Redfern able to get verbatim data (from the logs) in 1987.




Unidentified Flying Objects

Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is the highest classification that has been applied to any Ministry of Defence document concerning Unidentified Flying Objects.[HL304]

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: A limited search through available files has identified a number of documents graded Secret. The overall classification of the documents was not dictated by details of specific sightings of "UFOs".

G.Bruni Comments: I think that is very interesting and if the Rendlesham files are secret as I would expect them to be, we may never see them.




30 Jan 2001 : Column WA49

Rendlesham Forest/RAF Bentwaters Incident

Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will detail the underground facilities at the former RAF Bentwaters installation; and what is the purpose of these facilities.[HL320]

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean):

There are no underground facilities at the former RAF Bentwaters.

G.Bruni Comments: Actually, there are underground facilities at Bentwaters but they are sealed. The security chief at the installation who gave me a guard and permission to investigate the buildings, told me the underground facilities were sealed when the MOD put the base up for sale. He had written several times to the MOD requesting details of these but although they promised to look into the matter, he received nothing. I also discovered a door in the main command post that was clearly an entrance to an underground facility because it could not lead to anywhere above ground. The guard had no keys for this very important door that was covered in warning signs. According to the chief of security there are still several parts of the installation that are sealed. So, the Answer is in essence is crafty because as the facilities are now sealed, one could surmise that there are none.




Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are aware of any involvement in the 1980 Rendlesham Forest incident by either Ministry of Defence Policy or personnel from the Suffolk Constabulary.[HL321)

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean:

The Minister of Defence is not aware of any involvement by the Ministry of Defence Police in the alleged incident. The Ministry of Defence's knowledge of involvement by the Suffolk Police is limited to a letter dated 28 July 1999 from the Suffolk Constabulary to Georgina Bruni that is contained in the recent book.

G.Bruni Comments: According to the Deputy Base Commander of AFOSI RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge (at time of incident), a member of the ARRS and two other commanders, the MOD police would have been informed immediately. If the MOD have to resort to my book for information then we must question why this is so. Where are these records?




Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are aware of any investigation of the 1980 Rendlesham Forest incident carried out by the United States Air force, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations or any other United States agency.[HL322]

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean:

The Ministry of Defence's knowledge of an investigation by the US authorities into the alleged incident in Rendlesham Forest in 1980 is limited to the information contained in the memorandum sent by Lt Col Halt USAF, Deputy Base Commander at RAF Woodbridge, to the RAF Liaison Officer at RAF Bentwaters on 13 January 1981.

G.Bruni Comments: Notice there is no mention of the covering note from Squadron Leader Donald Moreland which is titled "Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)" Also no mention of the telephone calls he made concerning the incident, which really should have been logged considering they were from the British Liaison Officer. What has happened with this case is that the MOD have not left a paper trail.




30 Jan 2001 : Column WA50

Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in the light of the new information contained in Georgina Bruni's book You Can't Tell the People, they will now launch an investigation into the Rendlesham Forest incident and the response to this incident by the United States Air Force and the Ministry of Defence.[HL352]#

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean:

No additional information has come to light over the last 20 years to call into question the original judgment by the Ministry of Defence that nothing of defence significance occurred in the location of Rendlesham Forest in 1980. Accordingly there is no reason to hold an investigation now.

G.Bruni Comments: This is the Answer that really annoys me (it's the standard line) because I am aware (from a memo that had my name on it) and has since been stamped "restricted" that certain high officials have read my book. Therefore the MOD must have all the new information. If the officials in office at this time are not aware of anything else due to the cover-up, then the information in my book alone should be enough to open an investigation.




Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they have made any approach to, or received any approach from, any United States government or military agency concerning Georgina Bruni's book You Can't Tell the People; and, if so, whether they will give details of any such approach. [HL353]

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean:

As a matter of courtesy, the Ministry of Defence informed Headquarters 3rd Air Force at RAF Mildenhall about the book. The US authorities have not subsequently approached the Ministry of Defence on the issue.

G.Bruni Comments: If there is no additional information then why would it be necessary to alert RAF Mildenhall about my book. After all, it's just a UFO story and according to the MOD it is of no defence interest....




Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they now agree with the analysis of the basic facts of the Rendlesham Forest/RAF Bentwaters incident in the fourth paragraph of Lord Hill-Norton's letter to Lord Gilbert of 22 October 1997, reported on page 429 of Georgina Bruni's book You Can't Tell the People; or, if not, in what respect they disagree. [HL354]

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean:

The Ministry of Defence's position regarding this alleged sighting remains as it did at the time of Lord Gilbert's reply to the noble Lord's letter of 22nd October 1997. From surviving departmental records, we remain satisfied that nothing of defence significance occurred on the nights in question.

G.Bruni Comments: That's a very interesting reply considering Lord Gilbert's reply suggested that they did not routinely contact witnesses who submit reports of UFOs. In this instance the witness was Lt Colonel Charles I Halt, Deputy Base Commander of a NATO installation in Britain that deployed nuclear weapons.
Does this mean that anybody can hover over and land a craft on the perimeter of a British military base and scare the hell out of numerous military personnel and get away with it?
If that is the case then it's amazing that Britain has not been invaded years ago.




Lord Hill-Norton has had a passionate interest in this case for many years and has done a good job in trying to get answers and, I know he is as annoyed as others that the MOD keep avoiding the issues.

I stand by my case; this incident has to be of extreme defence significance. The problem is (and I quote our former Prime Minister who was in office at the time of the incident, Margaret Thatcher) "You can't tell the people".

[Celesta]

Hi Mike,

This is very interesting. I have not found anything more about the supposed press conference. It's interesting that the point was made on Larry King that the US Gov't had stopped investigating UFO's at the tail end of the 1960's, and yet Colonel Halt said that the Rendlesham incident was investigated, contradicting the policy that the govt was no longer checking these things out.

I wonder if Stan heard anything about this "press conference."

Thanks for posting that for us, Mike.

[sdreid]

Hi Celesta,

No, I haven't heard anything about any UFO news conference. The last time I saw Col Halt was on UFO Hunters a few weeks ago.

[Mike Covell]

UFO's are still actively investigated but for the reason of National Security.

The fact of the matter is, we have trained personel seeing strange often fast moving "Things" over our Nations Airspace. These have been seen, as you know, by military, aviation, and civilian experts, as well as the average joe on the street.

The questions that the Governments of the world wish to know is "Are these of defence significance" and the answer, after investigation is usually "NO"

My theory is, they are Not of Defence Significance, because if they did choose to attck, our defences would just crumble anyway!!!

In the late 1990's Nick Pope, former head of the UFO Desk in Whitehall released a couple of books on the subject, he also released two fiction books with the heading,

"Sometimes fact is so scary, it can only be told as fiction"

Both books talked of an alien attack and what the nations of the world would do.
Operation Lighting Strike
Operation Thunder Child
I believe they are called, and are both worth reading!!

[plang]

Larry King? Larry King is a weirdo. Surely you can see that Celesta?

Plang

[Celesta]

Larry King? Larry King is a weirdo. Surely you can see that Celesta?

Plang

No, Plang, I think you're thinking of someone else. Larry King is an old guy who interviews people on CNN. He's interviewed a lot of worthwhile people. This is King. Is he who you're thinking of? He's pretty innocuous.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/king.larry.html

[plang]

I stand by my statement Celesta. He is a freako!
plang