JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Herlock Sholmes]

''Actually, the Holocaust was widely known about at the time.''

Really? At what time would that be?
And widely known by whom? The average British soldier? Or American G.I.? Or the Red Army soldier who actually liberated most of the death camps in Poland?
And since the term 'holocaust' was not in general use for at least 30 years later, how could it have been used in the mid 1940s?

One myth that is widely accepted by modern western societies nowadays is that Nazi Germany was challenged and defeated due to its policy of exterminating the Jewish people. It is a comforting moral bedtime story but unfortunately this is not the case.

The myth of the lone JFK gunman, albeit one who had lived in Belarus of all places, is central to this website and is often debunked. Rightly so.

But the holocaust wasn’t kept secret for 60 years and counting Cobalt. Basically it was just a case of the Nazi’s not telling everyone what they were up to. The German’s didn’t set up a corrupt plan to show that the people in the camps weren’t killed intentionally. They didn’t try to frame someone else for the genocide.

[Herlock Sholmes]

So..

President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1pm

Airforce One took off, carrying Kennedy’s body, at 2.47

The decision about where Kennedy’s autopsy would take place occurred on that flight with Bethesda being selected by Jackie Kennedy from a choice of three.

The autopsy began at about 8 p.m

So let’s estimate that the decision was made by 3.30 on board Airforce One. (It may well have been later)


So our plotters had 4½ hours to find 2 corrupt medical men willing to take part in the biggest cover-up in the nation’s history. One of those men called up another medical man who was also willing to take part in this massive cover-up. Kennedy’s Staff, other corrupt officials, corrupt Nurses, corrupt Porters, corrupt Technicians, corrupt photographers, corrupt x-Ray operatives. All briefed about the plan and sworn to never reveal anything and with those in charge totally confident that no leaks could occur. And all of this in around 4½ hours?


I’m sorry chaps but all that I can say is…get real. This is fantasy Island stuff. Didn’t happen. Couldn’t possibly have happened.

I’m sorry but, as ever, no proper response to this kind of inconvenient question. How could they possibly have organised this autopsy, making certain they everyone was on the same page, that the tech issues (fakery etc) were achievable and sustainable, that no one would blab, that the plan was sufficiently contained with no one getting to know what was occurring.

And could we please not resort to the cliche of “if the military tells you to do something you just do it.” Try it today. Yes, you might get a few that would go along with it and keep their mouths shut but what is being suggested is that those in charge were staggeringly lucky enough only to select those who were willing. Not one said “do what you want but I want no part of this.” What if just 3 or 4 staff members said this? What could they have done? Killed them and hope that no one was paying attention? No…so they have 3 or 4 people walking around who know what went on.

Yes, military men follow orders because they are a part of, and believe in, the military body that they serve. But they also served their country and their President. We cannot keep brushing this under the carpet because it doesn’t suit conspiracist thinking. That these ‘plotters’ or whatever we wish to call them could ensure that all of these military, medical and civilian personnel at Bethesda were all on board and would knowingly play their parts in betraying the Kennedy family, the office of President and the people of the USA is utter hogwash.

And they have to do all of this 4½ hours or possibly less. It’s a delusion.

[Patrick Differ]

The Kennedy bothers and MLK represented a generational change to the Status Quo. That Status Quo was represented by the WW2 and Cold War warriors like LBJ, Dulles, Hoover, General Curtis LeMay and that Old Guard.

As an American my lens into this is through the memory of my father. On this fathers day i reflect on my dad who was an immigrant from Twechar, Scotland. He came to thd USA in 1929 at age 10. By age 20 he was repairing B17 bombers after vocational training at Casey Jones Aeronautical School. By 1944 he was bombing Germany as flight engineer. When he was called up for the Korean War he made no hesitation as it was duty. He was flight engineer on a B29 Superfortress and on his 9th mission, December 30,1952, to take out a N Korean Ore facility in Suniji his Group of 11 Planes was attacked by Russian Ace MiG 15 Pilots out of MiG Alley. My father and the Pilot, after being hit 3 times, kept the plane aloft until 5 men managed to bail out. The plane had a catostrophic wing failure and 4 men perrished but were listed as MIA until 1964.

I was 3 months old and never met him. But my older brother and sister ( both living) have actual memories. I share this with all of you, not for any sympathy because that is long gone, but to draw attention to the idea of Military duty.

There is no doubt in my mind that Humes was taking orders as this would not have been a second thought. There were Military leaders in the Autopsy and while Humes had to conduct it there were serious problems with the entire autopsy event. The decision not to trace the entrance wounds in throat and back for path ( tunneling) was not done. Humes did not have access to photos and xrays, he was given sketches. A nod or quick word by a Colonel or higher would have affected Humes.

For most Americans, I think the percentage is near 80%, the idea that this Old Guard could and did kill both Kennedys and King is now the norm. The affect of these murders on the American psyche, and especially the Boomer generation, having lived through it, has led to the questioning of Authority.
This change is seen in the Vietnam War and questioning of why America kept fighting Wars.

Americans could believe perhaps a lone nut like Oswald could have pulled this off. However that all changed when RFK and MLK were murdered, Vietnam escalated, and the People started applying pressure on the Old Guard.

We keep asking questions not because we trust or dont trust government. The search for truth is often elusive. But that does not mean we stop as duty often compells us to search.

In the case of Oswald he was never proven to be the killer as he himself said he didnt shoot anybody. He said he was a patsy. Unfortunately he was assassinated and that act alone turned the JFK assassination into a conspiracy.

HAPPY FATHERS DAY FRIENDS!!! ENJOY IT!!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oswald was 100% cast-iron proven to have killed Kennedy. There can’t be even the slightest room for the merest slither of doubt. This is the most open and shut murder case in history.

He changed his normal plans
He brought the rifle to work
His rifle
His prints
100% the weapon that killed Kennedy
His work location
He left the scene
He killed Tippit
His gun
100% the weapon that killed Tippit

There is no way that conspirators with a modicum of reason or sense would have used this plan
There is no way that conspirators with a modicum of reason or sense would have relied so much on luck
There is no way that they would have chosen the grassy knoll (a toddler wouldn’t have been that dumb)
Its impossible to have arranged for this alleged corrupt autopsy, especially in 4½ hours or less
There was no point of disguising wounds at an autopsy when dozens might already have seen them…come on
A four year old could come up with a better, more efficient, far less reliant on luck, far less likely to be revealed plan.

People waste far, far too much time quibbling over measurements, angles etc. The above shows that there was no conspiracy. 60 years of time wasted. 60 years of pain for the American people just to satisfy the corrupt ego’s of wasters like Garrison, Lane, Groden and the army of obsessives. The whole sick show promoted by people that continue to benefit from the assassination (and I’m not talking government bodies because virtually nothing changed after Kennedy’s death)

I hate this subject. It makes me genuinely angry. Then we have the latest files with CT’s all jumping up and down saying “get ready…it’s all going to come out!” And predictably…..f*** all. Zilch. Because there is nothing. It was a lie. The whole Kennedy CT industry is based on a lie and people have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker because a) they prefer a mystery, b) they love it when they can blame people in high places, and c) victim mentality. Big Brother sitting in The Matrix is manipulating us.

Finally, if there was evidence that JFK had been killed by his own party and the institutions that they controlled, can anyone see the Orange ManBaby in the White House missing out on a chance of destroying the credibility of the Democrats?

There’s nothing there. You’ve been conned. If there was a heaven and Oswald was there he’d be laughing his a**e off at everyone treating him like Nelson Mandela instead of the callous, double murderer that he undoubtedly was.

[Lewis C]

''Actually, the Holocaust was widely known about at the time.''

Really? At what time would that be?
And widely known by whom? The average British soldier? Or American G.I.? Or the Red Army soldier who actually liberated most of the death camps in Poland?
And since the term 'holocaust' was not in general use for at least 30 years later, how could it have been used in the mid 1940s?

One myth that is widely accepted by modern western societies nowadays is that Nazi Germany was challenged and defeated due to its policy of exterminating the Jewish people. It is a comforting moral bedtime story but unfortunately this is not the case.

The myth of the lone JFK gunman, albeit one who had lived in Belarus of all places, is central to this website and is often debunked. Rightly so.

The questions on your first 2 lines can be answered by reading the link that I provided.

When the term "Holocaust" began to be used isn't relevant to the question of how widely known it was at the time that Jews were being exterminated.

I know of no one who thinks that Nazi Germany was challenged and defeated due to its policy of exterminating the Jewish people. And again, even if that were true, it wouldn't be relevant to what we were talking about.

Nothing about the JFK assassination is central to this web site. The Whitechapel murders case is what is central to this web site.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Let’s, for a time, put aside all the talk of ballistics, of angles, of what time it might or might not have looked like Kennedy was first hit on the Zapruder film, of which witness was or wasn’t correct in their statements, and just consider the situation that required the conception of a plan to assassination Kennedy. We can’t state exactly which plan any conspirators ‘might’ have used because there are numerous different versions of a conspiracy to assassinate the President, so we can only put together a bit of a list of what was required and decided on by an unnamed group of conspirators.

I’ll begin by making a few points. 1) these conspirators must have been extremely powerful in terms of the influence that they had over or within the institutions of the USA. 2) There was no logical reason why Kennedy had to be killed in Dallas. Dead is dead. People aren’t bothered about things like ‘symbolism’ in the real world. 3) The conspirators would have needed to be assured that the plot, and their individual roles in it, never came to light. 4) It’s an established and accepted fact that the more complex the plot; the more people that are involved, the greater the chance of that plot being revealed. And as a general, but important, point, I’d add that in terms of plans in general it’s always a case of..the less complex the better…less to do, less to go wrong. And let’s abandon all previous attempts to portray this endeavour as a kind of ‘you win some, you lose some,’ effort. Nothing could have been bigger, more far-reaching, more potentially catastrophic than this. Think of Watergate then multiply by a thousand. This is a plot that simply couldn’t unravel or be revealed to the public. Ever.

I can’t see anything that I’ve said in the above two paragraphs which anyone could find controversial or misleading? So what did the alleged Kennedy’s conspiracy entail?


- They had to, in a short space of time, find someone who could place himself on the motorcade route and in such a place that would have allowed him to either fire a rifle or to set up the scene to look like someone else was firing from there. This would of course rely on luck because it’s simply a fact that any of his co-workers could have interrupted him at any time. He had zero control over that situation.

- Quite a complex series of actions in ordering and receiving a rifle and revolver from Klein’s. They also had to link Oswald to the name Hidell.

- They also had to ensure that Oswald either brought the rifle into work that morning or that he carried a larger-than-usual package which would allow law enforcement to assume that it was a rifle.

- They had to place a gunman on the Grassy Knoll to make a shot and then leave the scene without anyone seeing him. Remembering of course that this was directly in front of a car park (used by the Sheriff’s office and court house employees) It was also directly in front of a railway control tower with a man in it. And with police officers on the scene within seconds, they had to come up with a way of avoiding capture or at least of being seen. This appears to be close to impossible.

- They would have had to have ensured that, in quick time, every single camera and movie camera was prevented from leaving Dealey Plaza to avoid any incriminating (for the conspirators) photographs or film footage leaking out to the public and the Press.

- They would have had to have applied incriminating prints to the rifle.

- They left three cartridges to they would have been hoping and praying that no more that three bullets were found.

- They would have had to have set up the Tippit murder and made sure that the person that actually did it resembled Oswald enough to allow numerous witnesses to falsely identify him.

- They would have had to have faked the results on the revolver that Oswald had on him to make it appear that it was the one that killed Tippit.

- They were relying on luck that Oswald conveniently acted in such a suspicious and incriminating way after the murder - passing his correct bus stop, jumping of the bus into a taxi, his complete silence in the taxi, getting the taxi to drop him a distance from his room, walking in one direction first and then turning back, ignoring Earlene Roberts, getting changed, picking up a pistol, not paying for a cinema ticket etc.

- And at no time did Oswald claim to have been set up by any conspiracy or did he mention any conspirators. He even had the opportunity to spill the beans on national television but luckily for the conspirators he held his tongue.

- They then had to fake photographs, x-rays and the Zapruder film. All after the event.

- In double quick time ( 4½ hours or less) they found compliant doctors, nurses, technicians, porters, ambulance men, police, military men etc who were all ok with betraying the Presidents family, the late President and the people that they had sworn to serve so that they could perform an autopsy presenting a false verdict.

- Then they managed to to get together some of the country’s most eminent men (led by a man who saw JFK as close to a son) and told them that they were part of a corrupt commission where they would have to spend months of their lives to come up with a fictional report with findings that were given to them beforehand. They wouldn’t have know if one day the lie would be exposed and their reputations ruined.

There was more to be added of course but the above gives a feel of the breadth and scope of this alleged plot; requiring actions a long time before, during and a long time after the event. Remember, they just needed Kennedy dead. They didn’t want their plot to fail. They didn’t want their plot revealed. And they had a virtual army of highly trained men at their disposable. I have absolutely no military or intelligence network knowledge but could I, an ordinary bloke on a message board, come up with a more reliable, less likely to fail, less reliant on luck, less like to be uncovered plan to assassinate Kennedy? Surely not when such an incredibly complex plan was conceived and executed? Ok, here goes…


Firstly of course I would have found a willing and competent assassin and promised him wealth, a new identity and a flight abroad, a place to live etc. Perhaps a former sniper?

I would provide him with the best rifle available (with all serial numbers and means of traceability removed of course)

I would find a high building in whatever city Kennedy’s was visiting (and whichever was chosen) Either a hotel or a disused office in a building. The building would have a rear fire escape.

Just before the visit I would put the assassin in situ. Either in the hotel room or making visits to the office building so that he didn’t stand out. Before this though I would have given the assassin a simple disguise. A beard, some glasses and a walking stick (with limp) Simple enough.

On the day of the assassination the man is in place, wearing surgical gloves so as to leave no prints on the gun (he would have worn these earlier too so as to leave no prints in the room)

One headshot and Kennedy is dead.

Panic ensues.

The assassin leaves the unidentifiable rifle, exits the room, goes down the fire escape and walks the short distance to a waiting car. If seen…it’s a bearded man with glasses, a walking stick and a limp. From the shot to getting in the car around a minute or so.

He’s told that he’s being taken to a remote airstrip. Out in the desert he killed and buried.


Kennedy is dead….tick

The assassin cannot be questioned….tick

The assassin can never be questioned….tick

The rifle can’t be traced….tick

The plotters cannot be connected to the assassination….tick


Am I the Napoleon of assassination planning or am I just a normal person applying common sense and logic? How could it be believed that people with such resources at their disposal, people who had experience of political assassination, invasion, combat in all its forms, spy craft and coup d’etat came up with such a convoluted, difficult to maintain, cumbersome, cast of hundreds, reliant on luck, childishly inept plan ever (and please don’t say “it worked” because it didn’t or we wouldn’t still be talking about conspiracies) when it would have been child’s play to come up with a better, more efficient and massively safer (for the conspirators) one. The answer is that very obviously they wouldn’t have and THIS is what needs to be considered rather than indulging in endless technical nitpicking and the constant search for non-existent links. What’s the point of obsessively trying to work out how something occurred when reason tells us it couldn’t have occurred in the first place with relying on idiocy as an explanation.


Herlock’s Maxim No 2 - “ A theory is weakened if it relies on the suggestion of acts of egregious stupidity by those involved at the time.”

[Fiver]

It would be highly unlikely to find any admission by the CIA or FBI in documents beyond tbe documents that admit to knowing who Oswald was. Oswald was being monitored by the FBI before the Assassination. Both agencies knew who he was before the assassination.

Agreed. A competent Conspiracy wouldn't have documented their Conspiracy in the first place. And any Consipracy that was that stupid and inept has had over 60 years to destroy incriminating documents.

[cobalt]

Lewis C said:

''The questions on your first 2 lines can be answered by reading the link that I provided.''

They aren't actually. I'm well aware of the problem of 'Godwin's Law' in argument and have no desire to take the blog off course, but I used the Holocaust as an extreme example of how it would be possible for persons in power to control a narrative. Your link to the UN in December 1942 makes no reference to Death Camps which I specified in my original post. That concept was only established in January 1945 when the Red Army of the USSR liberated Auschwitz. Earlier Soviet attempts to publicise the Death Camp at Majdanek had been less successful.

I think my point stands, that had a rapprochement between the western allies and Nazi Germany occurred in 1945, then our knowledge of the holocaust would be far thinner. The horrors of Nazi occupation could not be entirely obliterated but the concept of the Death Camps- crucial since they establish intent and industrial organisation to commit genocide- could have been dismissed as Communist Propaganda. Or conspiracy theories.

HS thinks, quite logically, that the fewer persons involved in a conspiracy the better. I'm not so sure myself. I think there are times 'the more the merrier': collective guilt swears every man to silence. Rogue elements in side the CIA? Embittered Cubans? Mafioso with a grudge? No, I think the extent of the conspiracy to kill JFK was far wider and goes far deeper than that, to the very heart of the American military industrial complex which flourishes, up to a fashion, today. To break that silence is to abdicate power and open yourself up to the law. US citizens who participated in lynchings in the not so distant past knew that much.

''I know of no one who thinks that Nazi Germany was challenged and defeated due to its policy of exterminating the Jewish people.''

You should get out more.

''And again, even if that were true, it wouldn't be relevant to what we were talking about.''

I refer you to my opinion above about control of political narrative. I think it is very pertinent at this precise time in relation to events in the Middle East.

''Nothing about the JFK assassination is central to this web site. The Whitechapel murders case is what is central to this web site.''

Embrace parochialism if you wish.

[Paddy Goose]

Good afternoon Lewis,

Nothing about the JFK assassination is central to this web site. The Whitechapel murders case is what is central to this web site.

I sense your frustration, but the thread is correctly placed under the category "Other Mysteries." Also, the thread inevitably touches on politics, which is a prohibited subject here. But how can it not?

Having said that, I would like to share three books I have read which increased my knowledge and shaped my opinion by exploring the human element.

Oswald's Tale: An American Mystery by Norman Mailer, 1995

Marina and Lee: The Tormented Love and Fatal Obsession Behind Lee Harvey Oswald's Assassination of John F. Kennedy by Priscilla Johnson McMillan, 1977

American Confidential, Uncovering the Bizarre Story of Lee Harvey Oswald and His Mother by Deanne Stillman, 2023

[Herlock Sholmes]

Let’s, for a time, put aside all the talk of ballistics, of angles, of what time it might or might not have looked like Kennedy was first hit on the Zapruder film, of which witness was or wasn’t correct in their statements, and just consider the situation that required the conception of a plan to assassination Kennedy. We can’t state exactly which plan any conspirators ‘might’ have used because there are numerous different versions of a conspiracy to assassinate the President, so we can only put together a bit of a list of what was required and decided on by an unnamed group of conspirators.

I’ll begin by making a few points. 1) these conspirators must have been extremely powerful in terms of the influence that they had over or within the institutions of the USA. 2) There was no logical reason why Kennedy had to be killed in Dallas. Dead is dead. People aren’t bothered about things like ‘symbolism’ in the real world. 3) The conspirators would have needed to be assured that the plot, and their individual roles in it, never came to light. 4) It’s an established and accepted fact that the more complex the plot; the more people that are involved, the greater the chance of that plot being revealed. And as a general, but important, point, I’d add that in terms of plans in general it’s always a case of..the less complex the better…less to do, less to go wrong. And let’s abandon all previous attempts to portray this endeavour as a kind of ‘you win some, you lose some,’ effort. Nothing could have been bigger, more far-reaching, more potentially catastrophic than this. Think of Watergate then multiply by a thousand. This is a plot that simply couldn’t unravel or be revealed to the public. Ever.

I can’t see anything that I’ve said in the above two paragraphs which anyone could find controversial or misleading? So what did the alleged Kennedy’s conspiracy entail?


- They had to, in a short space of time, find someone who could place himself on the motorcade route and in such a place that would have allowed him to either fire a rifle or to set up the scene to look like someone else was firing from there. This would of course rely on luck because it’s simply a fact that any of his co-workers could have interrupted him at any time. He had zero control over that situation.

- Quite a complex series of actions in ordering and receiving a rifle and revolver from Klein’s. They also had to link Oswald to the name Hidell.

- They also had to ensure that Oswald either brought the rifle into work that morning or that he carried a larger-than-usual package which would allow law enforcement to assume that it was a rifle.

- They had to place a gunman on the Grassy Knoll to make a shot and then leave the scene without anyone seeing him. Remembering of course that this was directly in front of a car park (used by the Sheriff’s office and court house employees) It was also directly in front of a railway control tower with a man in it. And with police officers on the scene within seconds, they had to come up with a way of avoiding capture or at least of being seen. This appears to be close to impossible.

- They would have had to have ensured that, in quick time, every single camera and movie camera was prevented from leaving Dealey Plaza to avoid any incriminating (for the conspirators) photographs or film footage leaking out to the public and the Press.

- They would have had to have applied incriminating prints to the rifle.

- They left three cartridges to they would have been hoping and praying that no more that three bullets were found.

- They would have had to have set up the Tippit murder and made sure that the person that actually did it resembled Oswald enough to allow numerous witnesses to falsely identify him.

- They would have had to have faked the results on the revolver that Oswald had on him to make it appear that it was the one that killed Tippit.

- They were relying on luck that Oswald conveniently acted in such a suspicious and incriminating way after the murder - passing his correct bus stop, jumping of the bus into a taxi, his complete silence in the taxi, getting the taxi to drop him a distance from his room, walking in one direction first and then turning back, ignoring Earlene Roberts, getting changed, picking up a pistol, not paying for a cinema ticket etc.

- And at no time did Oswald claim to have been set up by any conspiracy or did he mention any conspirators. He even had the opportunity to spill the beans on national television but luckily for the conspirators he held his tongue.

- They then had to fake photographs, x-rays and the Zapruder film. All after the event.

- In double quick time ( 4½ hours or less) they found compliant doctors, nurses, technicians, porters, ambulance men, police, military men etc who were all ok with betraying the Presidents family, the late President and the people that they had sworn to serve so that they could perform an autopsy presenting a false verdict.

- Then they managed to to get together some of the country’s most eminent men (led by a man who saw JFK as close to a son) and told them that they were part of a corrupt commission where they would have to spend months of their lives to come up with a fictional report with findings that were given to them beforehand. They wouldn’t have know if one day the lie would be exposed and their reputations ruined.

There was more to be added of course but the above gives a feel of the breadth and scope of this alleged plot; requiring actions a long time before, during and a long time after the event. Remember, they just needed Kennedy dead. They didn’t want their plot to fail. They didn’t want their plot revealed. And they had a virtual army of highly trained men at their disposable. I have absolutely no military or intelligence network knowledge but could I, an ordinary bloke on a message board, come up with a more reliable, less likely to fail, less reliant on luck, less like to be uncovered plan to assassinate Kennedy? Surely not when such an incredibly complex plan was conceived and executed? Ok, here goes…


Firstly of course I would have found a willing and competent assassin and promised him wealth, a new identity and a flight abroad, a place to live etc. Perhaps a former sniper?

I would provide him with the best rifle available (with all serial numbers and means of traceability removed of course)

I would find a high building in whatever city Kennedy’s was visiting (and whichever was chosen) Either a hotel or a disused office in a building. The building would have a rear fire escape.

Just before the visit I would put the assassin in situ. Either in the hotel room or making visits to the office building so that he didn’t stand out. Before this though I would have given the assassin a simple disguise. A beard, some glasses and a walking stick (with limp) Simple enough.

On the day of the assassination the man is in place, wearing surgical gloves so as to leave no prints on the gun (he would have worn these earlier too so as to leave no prints in the room)

One headshot and Kennedy is dead.

Panic ensues.

The assassin leaves the unidentifiable rifle, exits the room, goes down the fire escape and walks the short distance to a waiting car. If seen…it’s a bearded man with glasses, a walking stick and a limp. From the shot to getting in the car around a minute or so.

He’s told that he’s being taken to a remote airstrip. Out in the desert he killed and buried.


Kennedy is dead….tick

The assassin cannot be questioned….tick

The assassin can never be questioned….tick

The rifle can’t be traced….tick

The plotters cannot be connected to the assassination….tick


Am I the Napoleon of assassination planning or am I just a normal person applying common sense and logic? How could it be believed that people with such resources at their disposal, people who had experience of political assassination, invasion, combat in all its forms, spy craft and coup d’etat came up with such a convoluted, difficult to maintain, cumbersome, cast of hundreds, reliant on luck, childishly inept plan ever (and please don’t say “it worked” because it didn’t or we wouldn’t still be talking about conspiracies) when it would have been child’s play to come up with a better, more efficient and massively safer (for the conspirators) one. The answer is that very obviously they wouldn’t have and THIS is what needs to be considered rather than indulging in endless technical nitpicking and the constant search for non-existent links. What’s the point of obsessively trying to work out how something occurred when reason tells us it couldn’t have occurred in the first place with relying on idiocy as an explanation.


Herlock’s Maxim No 2 - “ A theory is weakened if it relies on the suggestion of acts of egregious stupidity by those involved at the time.”

A correction. My third point should say…The assassin can never be traced….tick

[Fiver]

One of my main questions in terms of conspiracy Scott is why would the conspirators go to all of the complex trouble of setting up a corrupt autopsy to give fake findings (involving highly respected doctors apparently willing to betray they’re country, involving fake photos, involving fake x-rays and with not one single person breaking ranks and spilling the beans over he years) when they would have known full well that the body would have been taken first to Parkland with the obvious chance of ambulance men, porters, nurses and doctors seeing the ‘true’ wounds? It makes no sense at all. As I’ve described it in the past, it’s like a bank robber leaving the bank with his bag of cash, running past cctv cameras and members of the public before jumping into the getaway car and only then putting on a mask.

Exactly. The Conspiracy requires nigh-infinite resources combined with nigh-infinite stupidity. They repeatedly choose to take greater risks, expand the number of people in on the plot, and reduce their chances of success.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Exactly. The Conspiracy requires nigh-infinite resources combined with nigh-infinite stupidity. They repeatedly choose to take greater risks, expand the number of people in on the plot, and reduce their chances of success.

And yet it’s a point that’s simply ignored or brushed under the conspiracy carpet Fiver. Every one of us can come up with a vastly more reliable, vastly easier to carry off, far less complex, massively less likely to be discovered, and far less reliant on sheer luck plan yet we are expected to believe that these people who had influence over the military, the CIA, the FBI, the Secret Service, the police, the medical profession, politicians and members of the public sat around and thought “how can we create ourself a plan that’s insanely complex to carry out, involves hundreds of people that we are relying on not to talk, leaves us reliant on luck and it has to be a plan that we have a reasonable chance of being exposed and vilified for being part of a plot to murder JFK?”

Why would anyone believe this?

[Lewis C]

Good afternoon Lewis,



I sense your frustration, but the thread is correctly placed under the category "Other Mysteries." Also, the thread inevitably touches on politics, which is a prohibited subject here. But how can it not?

Having said that, I would like to share three books I have read which increased my knowledge and shaped my opinion by exploring the human element.

Oswald's Tale: An American Mystery by Norman Mailer, 1995

Marina and Lee: The Tormented Love and Fatal Obsession Behind Lee Harvey Oswald's Assassination of John F. Kennedy by Priscilla Johnson McMillan, 1977

American Confidential, Uncovering the Bizarre Story of Lee Harvey Oswald and His Mother by Deanne Stillman, 2023

Hi Paddy,

My only point was to correct a statement about the central focus of this web site. I wasn't saying that it's wrong for this site to have a JFK thread, or even more than one such thread. Many forums have sections for discussions about things that aren't the site's central focus, and I have no problem with that. Most people don't want to talk about the same thing all the time; variety keeps things interesting.

[c.d.]

Most people don't want to talk about the same thing all the time; variety keeps things interesting.

cough, cough...JFK thread..cough, cough...Lechmere thread...cough, cough, the Diary thread.

c.d.

[Fiver]

Am I the Napoleon of assassination planning or am I just a normal person applying common sense and logic? How could it be believed that people with such resources at their disposal, people who had experience of political assassination, invasion, combat in all its forms, spy craft and coup d’etat came up with such a convoluted, difficult to maintain, cumbersome, cast of hundreds, reliant on luck, childishly inept plan ever (and please don’t say “it worked” because it didn’t or we wouldn’t still be talking about conspiracies) when it would have been child’s play to come up with a better, more efficient and massively safer (for the conspirators) one.

One point you don't cover is location. Dealey Plaza is a bad location - the target is moving and there are obstacles obscuring at least some of line of sight.

As opposed to outside the Texas Hotel in Ft Worth.

* Clear line of sight from all directions.
* Target is standing still on a raised platform for several minutes.
* Target is surrounded by a crowd, which will both distract security and delay any attempt at pursuit.

As to the weapon, I'd favor something common and semi-auto, like the M1 Garand, which would be faster firing than a bolt-action.