JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

JUST CHECK OUT WHAT CLINT HILL SAYS AT 28.13 MIN IN . GAME OVER FOLKS , AND HE NEVER CHANGED HIS EYEWITHNESS ACCOUNT ..... EVER..., ''I WAS THERE ON THE DAY, IN THE LIMO''

Here's from Clint Hill's book.

"I jump from the follow-up car and run toward the presidential car. My actions are automatic, reactive. The only thought going through my head is that I must get on the back of the president’s car and form a protective shield behind President and Mrs. Kennedy. Nothing else matters.

The motorcycle engines are loud in my ears, and the car continues to move forward, away from me. I’m running as fast as I can, my eyes focused on the two people in the backseat of the car. I’m gaining ground, almost there, my arms reaching for the handhold, when another shot rings out.

The bullet hits its mark, piercing the back of President Kennedy’s head, just above and behind his right ear. In the same instant, a vile eruption of blood, brain matter, and bone fragments spews out, showering over Mrs. Kennedy, across the trunk, and onto me."

And this.

"The doctor points to a wound on the right rear of the head. This, he says, was the fatal wound. He lifts up a piece of the scalp, with skin and hair still attached, which reveals a hole in the skull, and an area in which a good portion of the brain matter is gone. I close my eyes for a moment, wincing, as the doctor keeps talking.

Difficult as it is, I try to focus on what he is saying. The fatal shot, he explains, entered the rear of the head and exited on the right, creating this flap of hair and skin. The impact of the bullet hitting the skull was so severe, it caused an eruption within that area of the brain, as the flap dislodged and was flung forward on the head.

Yes, that is exactly what happened. You don’t have to tell me. I saw the president’s head explode. His blood is still on my clothes."

[Herlock Sholmes]

He isn't just accusing people of lying, he's accusing them of being part of a criminal conspiracy to commit murder. And yet claiming someone might be mistaken is an insult to their memory.

It’s a striking double standard Fiver. We say that a witness, in difficult circumstances, made an error (knowing what we do about witnesses and how they can be wrong) and Fishy reacts as if we’ve accused them of some horrendous crime. Then in the next breath he’s perfectly happy to accuse Humes, Boswell, Finck and the entire Warren Commission of actually lying!

And all of those to defend a proven traitor, wife beater and double murderer with long term psychiatric issues. Poor old Lee. I say poor old Kennedy family. Poor old families Humes, Boswell, Finck, the secret service agents and those working on the WC who have their names dragged through the mud so that people can continue their hobby.

[Fiver]

How could they know there were no strangers in the building if they didn't know all of the employees ?

Is English a second language for your source?

None of those witnesses said that there were no strangers in the building. They said that they didn't see any strangers in the building.

Oswald worked in the building from October 16th- November 22nd ( 27 days not counting Veteran's day ).
That's 216 hours in that building.

And they never saw him. Not even in the lunchroom.

Your source appears to not know that there were two lunchrooms. And that not everyone ate in the lunch rooms.

How much weight do we give these witness statements that they didn't see any strangers in the building on the morning of the assassination when they didn't see Oswald for 27 days ?

My guess is not much.

So now you're accusing 16 people of lying because they didn't see Oswald? Seriously?

[cobalt]

And all of those to defend a proven traitor, wife beater and double murderer with long term psychiatric issues.

That's four allegations, none of which have ever been proven. Oswald's defection to the USSR would indicate a traitor save for the fact that he was never court martialled for this offence on his return. In fact the USA embassy helped with his costs to return. Given that there was a 'fake defector' programme being operated at the time Oswald might have been a patriot rather than a traitor.

Oswald's mistreatment of his wife is based on comments made by his wife and repeated by others, mostly 'White Russian' emigres. Not a group I have ever placed much reliance on in matters political, but my prejudices aside there was never a case brought against Oswald for beating his wife so the issue remains unproven.

The double murderer allegation remains unproven as well since Oswald never had the opportunity to make his case in open court. A few scribbled notes by interrogators that turned up years later comprise the extent of his own defence. The double murder theory is integral to the LG theory since if, horror upon horrors, it ever emerged that Oswald could not have killed Kennedy then the entire Tippit murder becomes incomprehensible. So the double murder theory is a belt and braces job for a pair of ill fitting trousers.

Oswald was diagnosed as having mental issues by a school psychiatrist IIRC. I'm not aware of this issue having arisen in his army service or later life. So the word 'long term' is probably misleading. School diagnoses can be notoriously inaccurate. I think Einstein's mathematics ability was judged as moderate when he was a schoolboy, but few would describe his mathematical problems as long term.

Poor old Lee. I say poor old Kennedy family. Poor old families Humes, Boswell, Finck, the secret service agents and those working on the WC who have their names dragged through the mud so that people can continue their hobby

.

Such concern for the great and good is admirable. It might be an idea to extend that compassion to Marina, former wife of Lee Oswald, and his two daughters.

[Fiver]

Seymour Weitzman saw a different scope too'

.More '' Actual Evidence'[ AS REQUESTED ] the warren commission lied about the rifle use to assassinate JFK.

Not only saw he a Mauser and not a Carcano, he saw a Weaver scope on that Mauser and not a ordnance optics japanese scope on a Carcano. ;

Mr. WEITZMAN - I said it was a Mauser-type action, didn't I?
Mr. BALL - Mauser bolt action.
Mr. WEITZMAN - And at the time I looked at it, I believe I said it was 2.5 scope on it and I believe I said it was a Weaver but it wasn't; it turned out to be anything but a Weaver, but that was at a glance.
Mr. BALL - You also said it was a gun metal color?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Gray or blue?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Blue metal.
Mr. BALL - And the rear portion of the bolt was visibly worn, is that worn?
Mr. WEITZMAN - That's right.
Mr. BALL - And the wooden portion of the rifle was what color?
Mr. WEITZMAN - It was a brown, or I would say not a mahogany brown but dark oak brown.
Mr. BALL - Rough wood, was it?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir; rough wood.
Mr. BALL - And it was equipped with a scope?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Was it of Japanese manufacture?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I believed it was a 2.5 Weaver at the time I looked at it. I didn't look that close at it; it just looked like a 2.5 but it turned out to be a Japanese scope, I believe.

[Herlock Sholmes]

That's four allegations, none of which have ever been proven. Oswald's defection to the USSR would indicate a traitor save for the fact that he was never court martialled for this offence on his return. In fact the USA embassy helped with his costs to return. Given that there was a 'fake defector' programme being operated at the time Oswald might have been a patriot rather than a traitor.

Just because a ‘fake detector’ programme was in operation we need solid proof that he was involved but there is none. He left the USA to live in, of all places, The Soviet Union and made it clear that he was prepared to give away secrets. Therefore, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, safely call him a traitor.

Oswald's mistreatment of his wife is based on comments made by his wife and repeated by others, mostly 'White Russian' emigres. Not a group I have ever placed much reliance on in matters political, but my prejudices aside there was never a case brought against Oswald for beating his wife so the issue remains unproven.

It wasn’t ‘matters political.’ Marina and others all claimed that Oswald was violent to her. He had also been violent to his brother and mother. The evidence couldn’t be a lot stronger.

The double murderer allegation remains unproven as well since Oswald never had the opportunity to make his case in open court. A few scribbled notes by interrogators that turned up years later comprise the extent of his own defence. The double murder theory is integral to the LG theory since if, horror upon horrors, it ever emerged that Oswald could not have killed Kennedy then the entire Tippit murder becomes incomprehensible. So the double murder theory is a belt and braces job for a pair of ill fitting trousers.

Obviously there was no trial but we had the WC who found him guilty. The HSCA agreed. Despite was CT’s might believe Cobalt, the record says that Oswald killed Kennedy’s and Tippit.

Oswald was diagnosed as having mental issues by a school psychiatrist IIRC. I'm not aware of this issue having arisen in his army service or later life. So the word 'long term' is probably misleading. School diagnoses can be notoriously inaccurate. I think Einstein's mathematics ability was judged as moderate when he was a schoolboy, but few would describe his mathematical problems as long term.

There’s a fair list of stuff that Oswald said and did which show him to have been unbalanced. He once asked Marina to help him hijack a plane to Cuba. He told a friend that he wanted to kill Eisenhower. He was going to go and ‘have a look’ at Nixon with a pistol. He shot at General Walker. He cut his wrists in a bath in Russia. This wasn’t a well balanced guy. Sacked from several jobs. Court-martialled twice.

Such concern for the great and good is admirable. It might be an idea to extend that compassion to Marina, former wife of Lee Oswald, and his two daughters.

His family…yes, I agree. They did nothing wrong. Marine? A different thing. She became a different person once the CT’s got their hooks into her and she saw the possibility of a better standard of life by being the wife of a ‘poor victim’.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Mr. WEITZMAN - I said it was a Mauser-type action, didn't I?
Mr. BALL - Mauser bolt action.
Mr. WEITZMAN - And at the time I looked at it, I believe I said it was 2.5 scope on it and I believe I said it was a Weaver but it wasn't; it turned out to be anything but a Weaver, but that was at a glance.
Mr. BALL - You also said it was a gun metal color?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Gray or blue?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Blue metal.
Mr. BALL - And the rear portion of the bolt was visibly worn, is that worn?
Mr. WEITZMAN - That's right.
Mr. BALL - And the wooden portion of the rifle was what color?
Mr. WEITZMAN - It was a brown, or I would say not a mahogany brown but dark oak brown.
Mr. BALL - Rough wood, was it?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir; rough wood.
Mr. BALL - And it was equipped with a scope?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Was it of Japanese manufacture?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I believed it was a 2.5 Weaver at the time I looked at it. I didn't look that close at it; it just looked like a 2.5 but it turned out to be a Japanese scope, I believe.

Your post reminded me of another example of double-standard Fiver. Fishy made accusations against Weitzman for changing his initial statement after he’d realised that he’d been mistaken about what type of rifle it was. Yet CT’s are quite happy to quote witnesses who suddenly remember stuff years later. Often after tea and biscuits with Mr. Lane of course.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Let’s put ourselves in the place of the mystery man (I’ll assume a man) whose task it was to enter the TSBD, plant a rifle on the 6th floor (because he knew that was where Oswald was working) unknown to Oswald or anyone else and then to leave.

First task is to enter the building carrying a rifle (in some form of package or bag) and get up to the 6th floor.


Question - I can’t recall, did Oswald always work on the 6th floor or did he move around? If he moved around how would our mystery man have known that on that particular day the 6th floor was the place to plant the gun?


Fishy has pointed out that not everyone would have known all of the other TSBD workers so that we couldn’t assume that someone would have noticed a stranger. I have no problem accepting that. It’s certainly not impossible that a stranger could have reached the 6th floor without anyone noticing but we have to consider risk. Our mystery man wouldn’t have wanted to be stopped (especially with a rifle under his arm of course). Most workplaces have people that have worked there for years and who know everyone. More importantly supervisors and managers like Roy Truly had to know everyone so our mystery man wouldn’t have wanted have been taking a huge risk of being seen and even stopped. Even if someone hadn’t been sure at the time it would hardly have been an outrageous occurrence if someone had later said “come to think of it, I did see a guy carrying a package heading for the stairs.” So it really can’t be doubted that our man would have been relying on huge swathes of luck. You don’t build a conspiracy reliant on luck.

Then he arrives at the 6th floor. When? If it was before Oswald’s coworker’s went down for lunch how did he manage to find somewhere to hide before anyone saw him? And would he really have entered the floor without anyone noticing with a group of men still working there?

He couldn’t have confidently waited until they had left because he couldn’t have known when they would leave or even whether they would leave. And where could he have waited? Not downstairs. Not on the stairs. And how could he have known that they wouldn’t have used the stairs to go for lunch and met him on the way up? Even if he couldn’t have confidently bypassed them how could he have known that Oswald wouldn’t have decided to stay on the 6th floor to eat his lunch? He might have decided to watch the motorcade from there whilst eating a sandwich for all our mystery man would have known. Hoping for a bit of luck?

Let’s suggest that Oswald left the 6th floor at around 12.00 just for the sake of discussion. Around that time Bonnie Ray Williams arrived on the 6th floor to eat his lunch. How did our mystery man avoid being seen by him? And if he had hid somewhere how could he have known that Williams wouldn’t decide to stay on the 6th floor to watch the motorcade? Another slice of luck required.

As luck would have it Williams left the 6th floor at around 12.10-12.15 leaving our guy free to plant the rifle and the cartridges not knowing whether anyone might stroll up the stairs and arrive on the 6th floor trapping him. But no one did…so that was lucky.

The idea that this rifle was planted there without Oswald knowing anything about it is too silly for words. The alternative is that Oswald planted his own rifle for someone else to use…which is even sillier. Or that Oswald simply allowed someone to plant a rifle, that he didn’t know could be traced to him, on the very floor where he was known to have been working. Would anyone add that this happened but that Oswald didn’t know that it was going to be used to kill Kennedy? Frankly, nothing would surprise me.

We don’t need to discuss ballistics and witnesses seeing things that weren’t there when we have this kind of nonsense. How could any serious person accept that this was even remotely plausible?

The gun was put there by Lee Harvey Oswald and he used it to shoot Kennedy.

[GBinOz]

Your post reminded me of another example of double-standard Fiver. Fishy made accusations against Weitzman for changing his initial statement after he’d realised that he’d been mistaken about what type of rifle it was. Yet CT’s are quite happy to quote witnesses who suddenly remember stuff years later. Often after tea and biscuits with Mr. Lane of course.

Weitzman, who professed to having extensive firearm's knowledge & experience, signed an affidavit that the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser. The Carcano has the following markings on the barrel: "MADE ITALY", "CAL. 6.5", "1940", and the serial number C2766. The scope is stamped "Ordnance Optics", not "Weaver". Craig, who was able to read, saw "7.65 MM MAUSER" stamped on the rifle found in the Texas School Book Depository.

Que the customary character assassination, as is usual with WC apologists, for anyone that doesn't agree with their fabrications.

[Herlock Sholmes]

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0024a.htm

The pages and pages of expert examination proving that the autopsy photographs and x-rays are categorically genuine. Or do we have more people maligned as liars. These people were simply experts in their field. Men with impeccable reputations and qualifications.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Weitzman, who professed to having extensive firearm's knowledge & experience, signed an affidavit that the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser. The Carcano has the following markings on the barrel: "MADE ITALY", "CAL. 6.5", "1940", and the serial number C2766. The scope is stamped "Ordnance Optics", not "Weaver". Craig, who was able to read, saw "7.65 MM MAUSER" stamped on the rifle found in the Texas School Book Depository.

Que the customary character assassination, as is usual with WC apologists, for anyone that doesn't agree with their fabrications.

Craig is a proven liar and fantasist. Weitzman was simply careless at the time. There was only one rifle there. I’m not interested in fantasy George. There was one rifle and that’s an end of it as far as I’m concerned. The whole idea of our plotters accidentally leaving the wrong rifle lying around is the stuff of comedy. If you want to take it seriously that’s up to you of course.

[Herlock Sholmes]

No responses on the points made of course. Par for the course.

[Fiver]

The extant Zapruder film shows JFK’s limousine gliding forward at a steady speed of about 11 mph, it definitely does not depict a stop or slow down.

Your source doesn't appear to know about the Orville Nix film. Or the Marie Muchmore film. Or the Charles Bronson film.

None of them show the alleged stop or slow down, because it never happened.

[Fiver]

173 of 929 pages of actual evidence 756 to go . AS REQUESTED OF COURSE

You have been repeatedly asked to stop spamming that website and start presenting evidence.

Nothing on that website is evidence - it's a mix of speculation and lies.

[Fiver]

Oswald's mistreatment of his wife is based on comments made by his wife and repeated by others, mostly 'White Russian' emigres. Not a group I have ever placed much reliance on in matters political, but my prejudices aside there was never a case brought against Oswald for beating his wife so the issue remains unproven..

You ignoring the evidence does not make it go away.

Marina Oswald said LHO abused her. Oswald's own mother saw a black eye that LHO gave Marina, but said Marina deserved it. Oswald's brother Robert saw Marina with a black eye that LHO gave her. So did Anna Meller. And George Bouhe. And Elena Hall. And Mahlon Tobias. Alex Kleinerer saw LHO slap his wife in the face.

And those are all separate incidents. Lee Harvey Oswald repeatedly smacked his wife around.