JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

The moment LHO was shot in public, was the point when people realised that there's a thin line between retaliation and the need to silence.

Being in custody, there was no reason to kill LHO.

Whoever hired Ruby, made assurances that he would be immune from prosecution.

That's why his initial Death sentence was quashed after an appeal.

Oswald was repeatedly allowed to talk to the press. That could mean:
* Oswald knew nothing that could endanger the Conspiracy.
* The Conspiracy was too stupid to realize that Oswald was a threat.
* There was no Conspiracy.

Now lets look at the murder of LHO.
* Ruby's chance to kill LHO only happened by pure luck. If Oswald hadn't wanted to change his sweater, he have been gone before Ruby had a chance to enter the building, let alone shoot him. Competent plans don't depend on blind luck.
* Competent plans don't take place in a crowded environment where the assassin could be stopped after getting only one shot off.
* Competent assassins don't attack where they have zero chance of escape.
* What good is the supposed payout when the best that Ruby can expect is lie in prison?

Ruby killing Oswald doe nothing to solve the Conspiracy's problem. They have just replaced one man who knows too much for a different man who knows too much.

[Fiver]

The kill shot didn't come from LHO.

The physics simply doesn't work.

The physics work. It has been prove by people who analyze crime scenes for a living.

* Connally's thigh wound can only come from a bullet deflecting or his wrist or if God shot him in the leg.
* Connally's wrist wound can only come from a tumbling bullet that passed through his chest.
* Connally's torso wound can only come from bullet that passed through JFK or if JFK shot him with an invisible gun that disappeared.
* JFK's throat wound could have come from the 5th or 6th floor of the Book Depository.

Any picture that shows a bullet curving to hit both JFK and Connally ignores the actual positions of both men.

For magic bullets, lets look at Oliver Stone.
* Bullet 1 from the Daltex misses everything and disappears without a trace.
* Bullet 2 from the Grassy Knoll curves to miss the crowds lining the street, the sign, and Connally to strike JFK in the throat and then disappears without a trace. Stone's pro-conspiracy consultant took one look at the re-enactment for the film and realized the shot was impossible.
* Bullet 3 from the Daltex is utterly silent, strikes JFK in the back, and then disappears without a trace.
* Bullet 4 from the Depository is utterly silent, curves to miss JFK, then curves again to hit Connally.
* Bullet 5 from the Grassy Knoll strikes JFK from the front and then disappears without leaving JFK's head.
* Bullet 6 from the Daltex is utterly silent, misses the limo and everyone in it, then travels through time to hit James Tague with a fragment before Bullet #5 hits JFK.

[Fiver]

The idea that the assassination of the president would have taken a lot of people being involved, is misleading.

All you need is a client who's willing to pay for a particular outcome, and a professional asset to carry out the hit.

In fact, there's no way that a conspiracy involving scores of individuals would have been viable or possible to carry out. It Is certainly too risky.


However, with only a handful of people involved, it then becomes easier to man-manage and operate more covertly.

A client hires a sniper; a man who applies their professional services in the private sector; mercenaries/ex military etc... but also a decoy in LHO, and an insurance policy in Ruby once LHO has been inevitably apprehended.

So all we need is...

A client with the money to bankroll the hit (?)
A freelance sniper paid for the hit (?)
A decoy used to distract (LHO)
A silencer (Ruby)

That's 4 people

And only 3 men getting paid

And none of those 3 men would have known about each others involvement; with the exception of Ruby, who needed to have been aware of LHO.

LHO may have indeed thought he was working alone and the only shooter.

But he was too much of a flight risk, and so the person who payed for the hit, had to make sure a professional sniper was hired as an insurance policy.

One client and one pro shooter is a competent conspiracy. No competent conspiracy would use Oswald or Ruby in any capacity.

Using Oswald as a decoy is an incredibly bad idea. If he can't get a kill with his first shot, then the limo and its occupants will be moving in unpredictable ways that pretty much guarantees the pro won't have a clear shot and puts every police and Secret Service on alert. At which point, any real pro won't try the nigh-impossible shot, they would get out immediately. Plus it's a strong possibility the pro would think he had been set up as a patsy. Angering a pro assassin is not a longterm survival strategy for Mr Client.

And having two shooters guarantees it can't be a small conspiracy. The autopsy has to be faked. All of the forensic evidence has to be faked. All of the photograpic evidence has to be faked. And that's going to require dozens of conspirators.

[Lewis C]

The chief beneficiaries of JFK's death were black people. LBJ was able to use JFK's martyrdom and his own Senate experience to get civil rights laws passed that JFK never could have. LBJ got to be President, but who would commit treason and murder for LBJ?

And the reasoning itself is faulty.
Who benefited from the assassination of Lincoln? VP Andrew Johnson.
Who benefited from the assassination of Garfield? VP Chester Arthur.
Who benefited from the assassination of McKinley? VP Theodore Roosevelt.

LBJ didn't change any of JFK's policies. He didn't even change any of JFK's Cabinet. Nobody else gained a thing from JFK's death.

JFK had been trying to kill Castro, so I would say Castro gained from JFK's death. I don't think that there was a conspiracy, but if there was, Castro would be a better suspect than LBJ or the CIA.

[Lewis C]

The only conspiracy here is the Warren Commission.

That would mean that the only conspiracy happened after the assassination. I would agree that after the assassination is more likely than before, but I also think that confirmation bias by the Warren Commission is more likely than a conspiracy. But I'd say they essentially got it right even if there were errors in their process.

[Fiver]

JFK had been trying to kill Castro, so I would say Castro gained from JFK's death. I don't think that there was a conspiracy, but if there was, Castro would be a better suspect than LBJ or the CIA.

Castro would only gain from JFK's death if the CIA stopped trying to kill Castro. I'm pretty sure they didn't.

[Fiver]

That would mean that the only conspiracy happened after the assassination. I would agree that after the assassination is more likely than before, but I also think that confirmation bias by the Warren Commission is more likely than a conspiracy. But I'd say they essentially got it right even if there were errors in their process.

I suspect there was a strong desire to not have it be a Communist Conspiracy - that could lead to World War III.

[FISHY1118]

That would mean that the only conspiracy happened after the assassination. I would agree that after the assassination is more likely than before, but I also think that confirmation bias by the Warren Commission is more likely than a conspiracy. But I'd say they essentially got it right even if there were errors in their process.

I will have to disagree .They monumentally got it wrong , they were instructed to find a lone gunman outcome at all cost,, thats it . This was to serve two purposes, one, to take away any Russian involvement and the other a multiple shooter ,the first was the perfect cover for the second.

All the contradictory physical evidence and countless eyewitness testimony and statements at the time were left out ,changed and totally ignored as if they never happened.

Where is it in the warren commission report the sworn statement from Nurse Audrey Bell who watched multiple bullets fragments being removed from governor Connolly?. Yet we see a pristine bullet on display . No sir

Literally the same time Dr's were looking at a massive head wound in the back of Kennedy's skull ( and testified to this fact )where his brains were blown to smithereens. Yet all we see in the autopsy photo is a small bullet hole !!! ,No sir .



The Conspiracy is the Warren Commission report. ..

[Herlock Sholmes]

To be able to accept that a huge conspiracy took place in connection to the assassination of President Kennedy there are a large number of issues that have to be accepted as fact despite evidence to the contrary. These issues are of varying levels of believability and cover a fairly wide spectrum, but they all have one thing in common - they have to be totally accepted as true if a conspiracy is to be believed. If any one of them was found to be untrue then this would, according to its gravity, either seriously reduce the likelihood of a conspiracy or make one impossible.

Few can be as significant as what we are regularly asked to believe in regard to the autopsy. Apart from the fact that we would have to accept that those working at Bethesda - doctors, nurses, radiographers etc were all traitors to their country. All willing to participate in covering up the facts about Kennedy’s murder. Now this might seem to some to be coming from someone that blindly on the side of authority; someone who thinks that authority figures can do no wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth; to believe that, would be a distortion of reality. But what is equally a distortion is the commonly held view that all figures in authority are corrupt and that none of them are capable of decency or patriotism. It’s a casual cynicism that clouds judgment. We should be very wary of accusing men and women of such treachery. We’ve had it on here where a previous poster casually accused the driver of slowing down to make the gunman’s job easier, with the other security guards being in on it. I’d suggest reading the books written by those human beings. Read how they were haunted by this event for the rest of their lives leading in some cases to mental health issues and alcoholism. But hey, they are just pieces on a game board, just like the staff at Bethesda.

Can we imagine the difficulty (to put it mildly) of getting dozens of people all together to willingly take part in covering up a murder. And not just any murder but the murder of the President? Many of these people were ex-military, many were Kennedy supporters, and yet our conspirators somehow managed, in a very short space of time, to gather together every ‘bad egg’ that they could find in one building. People who had absolutely no regard for their country, their system of government or their President. Yes, the plotters may have been able to find one or two ‘on record’, but to have the staggering good fortune that pretty much everyone that worked at Bethesda was quite willing to play their crooked part and then keep quiet about it for the rest of their lives. Ask yourselves - what are the chances of that being the case? Where errors made at Bethesda? Of course there were..consider the circumstances.

Again, just to remind everyone of the sheer ‘alleged’ breadth of this conspiracy that could achieve the impossible (as above) But as we do over and over and over in this case we come up with the same old contradictions which just get glossed over in jabber about trajectories and wounds and walk times and shirt colours. And this contradiction is possibly the most glaring; the most egregious of the lot. Our high level plotters find a hospital where everyone is willing to betray their country at the drop of a hat so they can ensure that the public never finds out the true nature of President Kennedy’s wounds and yet not one of these Napoleon’s think “hold on a minute chaps, what about Parkland? What’s the point in us lying about the nature of Kennedy’s wounds when they would already have been seen by God knows how many at Parkland. Doh!”

And to rub salt into this particular wound, our plotters would have known for absolute certainty that a wounded Kennedy would have been taken to Parkland; unlike the autopsy where there was a choice of three hospitals. So they actually had the opportunity to prepare by doing what they did at Bethesda - getting all of the relevant staff together and saying “guys, we need a favour…”

Again, it’s by looking at the bigger issues that we can see how unlikely this alleged conspiracy was - and in saying that, I’m fully conscious that ‘unlikely’ doesn’t cut it as a strong enough word. What is the point of hiding something after an untold number of people have already seen it. Conspirators can’t be both mega-planners and morons at the same time. This anomaly can be explained of course - there clearly was no conspiracy. Just an assassination. By a man. Who got caught.

[Fiver]

Where is it in the warren commission report the sworn statement from Nurse Audrey Bell who watched multiple bullets fragments being removed from governor Connolly?.

Audrey Bell gave no statement in 1963. How can the Warren Commission be faulted for not including something that didn't exist?

In 1967, she talked about seeing JFK's head wound, but that wasn't a sworn statement.
In 1977, she gave an audio interview with HSCA. This is the first mention of 4 or 5 fragments.

Yet we see a pristine bullet on display . No sir

There is no pristine bullet.

[cobalt]

Any state execution is done, so far as the conspirators are concerned, in order to save the country, not to attack it. That is the nature of power being transferred. True patriotism. The JFK assassination was not sui generis: it is the story of power since time immemorial which even a cursory reading of history would confirm. Only the startled citizens of the monolingual US empire see this reality as some impossibly unique event. The USA is still a young country and has much to learn.

The number of self styled experts on this site concerning the topic of the 'perfect assassination' is breath taking. They know no more of what they speak than anyone who has casually read up on the JFK case. The perfect state assassination is the one that works: all the rest is prattle. Or cover up. If a gunman had been thwarted from shooting on the 6th floor- which nearly happened let us not forget- then the assassin narrative would merely have shifted to the grassy knoll. Oswald, as the TSBD main man, would still have been arrested as part of a conspiracy and dispatched swiftly. Maybe his fellow conspirators would have proved elusive and their identity entertained the media for generations to come.

The LHO lone gunman theory has worked well enough to prevent those who benefited from being exposed publicly. Their heirs flourish to this very day. So it was a success. It might not have convinced the majority of the public but that scarcely matters since the state apparatus, particualrly the judiciary and media, can be bullied and bribed into line. Anyone who questions the narrative of the ruling elite can be dealt with summarily.

[Fiver]

Abuse of his wife is anecdotal obviously, but I doubt he treated his wife any more shabbily than either JFK or LBJ did theirs.

Marina Oswald said LHO abused her. Oswald's own mother saw a black eye that LHO gave Marina, but said she deserved it. Oswald's brother Robert saw Marina with a black eye that LHO gave her. So did Anna Meller. And George Bouhe. And Elena Hall. And Mahlon Tobias. Alex Kleinerer saw LHO slap his wife in the face.

And those are all separate incidents. Lee Harvey Oswald was an wife abuser.

[Fiver]

The benefactors of the JFK assassination were those who wished LBJ to replace him. They were prepared to accommodate civil rights causes so long as LBJ could guarantee their own interests, prosecuting the Vietnam War being one of them.

Ah, the old myth that JFK was going to end the Vietnam War. He'd been sending troops in at a rate of 100,000 a year and said he was considering pulling them out at a rate of 1000 a year.

Do the math.

[GBinOz]

The number of self styled experts on this site concerning the topic of the 'perfect assassination' is breath taking. They know no more of what they speak than anyone who has casually read up on the JFK case.

They're also expert on ballistics without ever having handled a firearm, and on surgery without ever having touched a scalpel.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A major part of an JFK conspiracy theory is of course the Grassy Knoll. It’s become such a familiar phrase that many mistakenly believe this gunman to have existed. Debate on this subject usually centre’s around bullet trajectories, the relative hearing of the witnesses present, supposed wisps of smoke or steam, witnesses changing their minds after a conversation with Mark Lane or men that footage revealed not to have been there. I think that we should again look at the picture as a whole for answers. I think that our number one question should be - would our high level plotters have deployed a second gunman behind a fence on the legendary Grassy Knoll?

The first, and in my opinion, the most obvious question is why the need for a second gunman? Experts have told us that killing Kennedy’s wasn’t a particularly difficult shot so why would our conspirators have set up a gunman and then felt so little confidence in his abilities that they felt that need for a back up shooter. Yes, we’ve all heard that phrase ‘triangulation of fire’ and it all sounds very Rambo but we have to be reminded again that this wasn’t a particularly difficult shot. I recall reading a rifle expert once saying that a top marksman could have done it blindfolded. Ok, a bit of an exaggeration of course, but this certainly wasn’t the kind of kill that needed two snipers.

Two men of course doubles the chances of someone talking at some point in their lives.

Two men of course doubles the chances of one of them being caught in the act of escaping from different locations.

A shot from the side introduces the risk of a bullet trajectory that couldn’t be hidden or explained. As an example, what if the gunman had hit Kennedy in the right side of his neck or face and exited on the left and then hit Jackie? Even if the bullet hadn’t hit Jackie (or anyone) how could it be explained as having come from the 6th floor of the TSBD?

Then there’s explanation for above is probably ‘fake autopsy.’ Seriously? What kind of plotter (outside of a padded cell) sets up a kill which to succeed and not be uncovered needed a hugely complex fake autopsy replete with faked photographs and x-rays to cover it up!! I have to admit that it was difficult to stop at just two exclamation marks after that nonsense. Come on though - what thinking human being would come up with a disjointed, Ill-judged, unnecessary risk-riddled pile of you-know-what! Just get a proper sniper chaps, dispense with the Grassy Knoll silliness and the task of persuading 20 or 30 officials to betray their country and hide this from an onslaught of prying investigators. Please..

Then there’s the obvious issue of the number of bullets fired. If the bullets found didn’t match up to the number of cartridges found on the 6th floor then the only explanation would have been - 2nd gunman. Just one stray bullet and it’s game over. Would a child allow this kind of risk in a game. I’ll say it again - this was the supposed assassination of the President of the USA.

The location of the alleged gunman was in front of a car park full of cars. Can anyone imagine a worse location? I can. A car park full of cars belonging to police officers and court house workers which is exactly what that car park was. Plus a railway yard with trains and a tower with a man in it (who saw nothing until he had a chat with Mark Lane then…bingo. Magic Mark strikes again!). In actual fact it’s difficult to imagine a worse spot for a gunman and yet allegedly our top planners selected this exact location. Perhaps they struggled to find a worse one?

Not only was the area behind the gunman massively exposed and risky but the area in front of him was exposed and risky and full of people. All that it required was one single person, for whatever reason, to simply turn around. That’s all. We’re not suggesting a search with radar and dogs; just a turn round and there he would have been. A man with a gun. Great plan. I can see the problem, you can see the problem but our CIA/FBI/Military-trained plotters apparently couldn’t.

To make matters a thousand times worse, a percentage of those people in front of the fence had still and movie cameras and our plotters would have known this (unless we go back them being conveniently stupid again of course?). Just one stray photo with the Knoll in the background or one piece of footage scanning the area of the fence and there he was - it’s worth mentioning of course that no image of our non-existent gunman ever emerged (the Badge man joke excepted of course). Our gunman preserved for all posterity. And yes of course, film was collected in. It’s even suggested that some was never returned ( individuals can choose whether or not to believe this - I choose not to) But after the shots and the police running around looking for a gunman how could it be even remotely possible that our plotters could be anything approaching confident that the police couldn’t have missed any damaging film. That no one left Dealey Plaza camera in tact. It would have been a total impossibility. No one could give this nonsense a minute’s consideration. They would have been idiots if they even thought it possible. So they very obviously wouldn’t have taken that risk in the first place. Yet again we are faced with our ‘brilliant plotters acting like morons’ conundrum. How many times can this happen before heads are scratched, suggestions are properly considered and reasoned conclusions are arrived at?

A scan of Dealey Plaza leaves us wondering if a worse spot could have been found than behind that picket fence. A question that I’ve always wondered about is - how come we talk about Kennedy’s head snapping backward but if there was a gunman on the Knoll why didn’t Kennedy’s had go to the left? That question aside, we have another big question considered. Would a team of plotters (who weren’t insane) and were, as they would have had to have been, from a level of society with total influence over the national institutions, have chosen to put an unnecessary second gunman at the most ludicrously risky spot in Dealey Plaza in a custard pie fight? Absolutely not. Would they have done it in the assassination of the President? No answer is required.