JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

It's the only motive you have given for Hoover participating in a plot to kill JFK.

It is not.


RFK wasn't removed from office. LBJ kept on the whole Cabinet, including RFK.

It was clear that RFK would not be able to operate as before and he resigned within a year of his brother's assassination.


And you still haven't provided an practical reason for any of the people you accuse of plotting to kill JFK to kill him.

I did.


Allen Dulles wasn't head of the CIA in 1963.

I did not claim that he was.


John McCone was the head of the CIA. He had been appointed by JFK. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by being involved in a plot to kill JFK. He had everything to gain by revealing a plot to murder JFK. And he resigned from the CIA in 1965 - an act of absolute madness for anyone who needed to keep a murder plot secret.

Why do you think McCone was so uncooperative with the investigation?


But RFK wasn't neutered by JFK's assassination - LBJ kept RFK on as Attorney General.

I don't think anyone believes that.


And the Mob had a track record of murdering any of their own people who want to murder prosecutors. Read about Bugsy Seigel, who the Mob rubbed out for wanting to kill Dewey. Any mobster who tried to kill President Kennedy would have been immediately murdered by the rest of the Mob as a matter of self-preservation.

They were talking openly among themselves about murdering JFK.



Those men were murdered over a decade after JFK was murdered and they were going to testify about CIA plots against Castro. And they'd been ripping off the Mob.

I think you have made my point for me.



It's completely non-sensical.

Killing JFK didn't end RFK's political power. LBJ kept RFK on as Attorney General, which makes no sense if LBJ was part of the Conspiracy.

He resigned in 1964.


The next President could have revoked LBJ's giving Hoover an exemption on retirement. There is there motive there.

He had no reason to do so.


LBJ put Dulles on the Commission, he didn't put Dulles in charge of it.

LBJ and Hoover could count on Warren, Ford and Dulles to steer the Commission towards a pre-determined verdict.


Lets look at LBJ.
* LBJ didn't pick who did the autopsy om JFK.
* LBJ didn't put Dulles in charge of the investigation.
* LBJ didn't remove Bobby Kennedy as Attorney General.
* LBJ pushed harder for Civil Rights and containment of Communism than JFK had.
* LBJ made it clear he did not agree with the Single Bullet Theory.

Yet LBJ is supposed to be not just part of, but a leader in this Conspiracy?

I am sure we are all dying to see your evidence that LBJ disagreed with the SBT.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

'There was no reason for the Conspiracy to frame Oswald for killing Tippit'

There certainly was, in fact two reasons have been put forward. Firstly it established Oswald in the public mind as a killer by mid afternoon on the 22nd November. There was no evidence clearly linking him to the JFK assassination at that time. Second, DPD officers apprehending Oswald -the presumed cop killer- would be likely to shoot on sight and remove him as a problem.

I would acknowledge one thing: that Oswald- if it was indeed him- had a far greater motive to shoot Tippit than he ever did JFK. He realised he had been set up as a 'patsy' and would be very nervous about anyone who approached him. But the timings are all in favour of Oswald not being at the scene- the one thing Helen Markham is liable to have got correct is her daily routine to catch a bus to work. Earlene Roberts' testimony is usually accepted by all parties. Add in nobody seeing Oswald on his journey from the rooming house alongside the testimony of Burroughs and Davis from the cinema and Oswald seems to have been elsewhere.

Benavides waited in his truck until the gunman disappeared, and then "a few minutes" more, before assisting Tippit. He then tried, unsuccessfully,^[19] to use the radio in Tippit's car to report the shooting to police headquarters. Then another, unidentified person used the radio in the car and reported the shooting to a police operator for the first time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Tippit

The first report of Tippit's shooting is timed at 1:17:41.

The Warren Commission's finding that the murder of Tippit took place at 1.15 or 1.16 is irreconcilable with Benavides' testimony.

[FISHY1118]

Not even close.

JFK asked LBJ because he needed Southern Democrats to win. Hoover had nothing to do with it.

Cover story Kennedy used for an official reason .

Hoover indeed had everything to do with it.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Benavides waited in his truck until the gunman disappeared, and then "a few minutes" more, before assisting Tippit. He then tried, unsuccessfully,^[19] to use the radio in Tippit's car to report the shooting to police headquarters. Then another, unidentified person used the radio in the car and reported the shooting to a police operator for the first time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._D._Tippit

The first report of Tippit's shooting is timed at 1:17:41.

The Warren Commission's finding that the murder of Tippit took place at 1.15 or 1.16 is irreconcilable with Benavides' testimony.

According to Earlene Roberts' affidavit, Oswald was standing at a bus stop near her home at somewhere in the region of 1.05 p.m.

According to Domingo Benavides' testimony, the shooting of Tippit could not have taken place later than about 1.12 p.m.

How could Oswald have got to the scene of Tippit's shooting in less than seven minutes and why would he have done so?

[cobalt]

This question has long been asked and has no answer after 60 years. The WC could not answer it so tried to move back the time of the Tippit shooting. The Benavides testimony, the Earlene Roberts testimony, the Helen Markham testimony and even those who picked up the dead body of Tippit all undermine the WC timing.

The three problems remain.
1. If Oswald was at the bus stop at 1.03 (a fair estimate accepted by almost all parties) then he could not have been able to WALK to the scene of the Tippit shooting in time. Jog or trot maybe. But nobody saw him. And where was he walking to? He could of course been driven there but no evidence exists that he did or for what purpose. Surely a car would have dropped him off at the cinema.

2. Why did Tippit stop to speak to a man on the sidewalk? He must have passed several others who resembled the vague ID supplied by Brennan- in fact Benavides came close to the ID himself. We will never know the reason since the two men involved (allegedly) died within two days of each other so all we have is supposition. I fear it shall remain a mystery and may not even be connected to the JFK assassination. We do know that Oswald and Tippit had been in the same cafe two days prior when Oswald had mouthed off about his 'eggs over light' so maybe Tippit remembered him and just wanted to make a point. But the man was probably not Oswald.

3. Why was Tippit shot? He seemed to making run of the mill enquiries according to his actions and witness testimony, yet something changed in the mood of this and he exited the car with, we are told, his hand on his revolver. [I have no idea how reliable this claim is, but he did clearly leave the vehicle.] I can see a reason for Oswald shooting Tippit, fearing he was to be executed himself. But since I think Oswald was in the cinema at this point, I still struggle to see why any other Dallas man walking down the street would have had a reason to shoot Tippit either, although Tippit's actions after the assassination are open to a wide interpretation.

[GBinOz]

If Oswald was at the bus stop at 1.03 (a fair estimate accepted by almost all parties) then he could not have been able to WALK to the scene of the Tippit shooting in time. Jog or trot maybe. But nobody saw him. And where was he walking to? He could of course been driven there but no evidence exists that he did or for what purpose. Surely a car would have dropped him off at the cinema.

The bus stop at which Oswald was standing was for buses headed north. The Tippit site was to the south. So whether he was waiting for a bus or for someone to pick him up, the theory is that he tired of that and started walking. Testimony stated that Tippit's murderer approached from the east, but Oswald would have been approaching from the west. So did he walk past the site of the murder, and seeing Tippit driving down the street, and being on the run, turn around and go back to confront him?

Four shots were fired into Tippit. Bullets recovered were 3 Winchester and 1 Remington. The original radio call-in identified the casings as 38 Auto, later to become just 38, 2 Winchester and 2 Remington. Also found was a wallet containing credit cards and a driver's licence in Oswald's name, and an ID for A Hidell. So according to the WC, Oswald had shot Tippit with 4 shots from a revolver, opened the cylinder and picked out the expended casings and thrown them on the ground, and then took out his wallet and threw that on the ground as well. Very accommodating of him to be sure.

He then allegedly took himself off to the Texas Theatre where he was arrested, after all the audience had been removed from the theatre, and allegedly drew a fully loaded revolver. Also found upon him was was a another wallet containing credit cards and a driver's licence in Oswald's name, and an ID for A Hidell. Doesn't everyone carry two wallets with forged driver's licences and ID for aliases? After all, you never know if you may need to throw down one of them after you have just shot someone.

The usual reply will be that none of this happened, but there is contemporaneous news footage to show that it did. Didn't seem to bother the WC theorists in the slightest.

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

This question has long been asked and has no answer after 60 years. The WC could not answer it so tried to move back the time of the Tippit shooting. The Benavides testimony, the Earlene Roberts testimony, the Helen Markham testimony and even those who picked up the dead body of Tippit all undermine the WC timing.

The three problems remain.
1. If Oswald was at the bus stop at 1.03 (a fair estimate accepted by almost all parties) then he could not have been able to WALK to the scene of the Tippit shooting in time. Jog or trot maybe. But nobody saw him. And where was he walking to? He could of course been driven there but no evidence exists that he did or for what purpose. Surely a car would have dropped him off at the cinema.

2. Why did Tippit stop to speak to a man on the sidewalk? He must have passed several others who resembled the vague ID supplied by Brennan- in fact Benavides came close to the ID himself. We will never know the reason since the two men involved (allegedly) died within two days of each other so all we have is supposition. I fear it shall remain a mystery and may not even be connected to the JFK assassination. We do know that Oswald and Tippit had been in the same cafe two days prior when Oswald had mouthed off about his 'eggs over light' so maybe Tippit remembered him and just wanted to make a point. But the man was probably not Oswald.

3. Why was Tippit shot? He seemed to making run of the mill enquiries according to his actions and witness testimony, yet something changed in the mood of this and he exited the car with, we are told, his hand on his revolver. [I have no idea how reliable this claim is, but he did clearly leave the vehicle.] I can see a reason for Oswald shooting Tippit, fearing he was to be executed himself. But since I think Oswald was in the cinema at this point, I still struggle to see why any other Dallas man walking down the street would have had a reason to shoot Tippit either, although Tippit's actions after the assassination are open to a wide interpretation.

Tippet was supposed to take Oswald out , when he faulted or could do the job ( i.e he hesitated ) . Roscoe white shot him to death .

[FISHY1118]

The bus stop at which Oswald was standing was for buses headed north. The Tippit site was to the south. So whether he was waiting for a bus or for someone to pick him up, the theory is that he tired of that and started walking. Testimony stated that Tippit's murderer approached from the east, but Oswald would have been approaching from the west. So did he walk past the site of the murder, and seeing Tippit driving down the street, and being on the run, turn around and go back to confront him?

Four shots were fired into Tippit. Bullets recovered were 3 Winchester and 1 Remington. The original radio call-in identified the casings as 38 Auto, later to become just 38, 2 Winchester and 2 Remington. Also found was a wallet containing credit cards and a driver's licence in Oswald's name, and an ID for A Hidell. So according to the WC, Oswald had shot Tippit with 4 shots from a revolver, opened the cylinder and picked out the expended casings and thrown them on the ground, and then took out his wallet and threw that on the ground as well. Very accommodating of him to be sure.

He then allegedly took himself off to the Texas Theatre where he was arrested, after all the audience had been removed from the theatre, and allegedly drew a fully loaded revolver. Also found upon him was was a another wallet containing credit cards and a driver's licence in Oswald's name, and an ID for A Hidell. Doesn't everyone carry two wallets with forged driver's licences and ID for aliases? After all, you never know if you may need to throw down one of them after you have just shot someone.

The usual reply will be that none of this happened, but there is contemporaneous news footage to show that it did. Didn't seem to bother the WC theorists in the slightest.

Cheers, George

More solid evidence of contradictions of the W.C ,thanks again George .

And yes apologist will certainly claim all that never happened. .

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

According to Earlene Roberts' affidavit, Oswald was standing at a bus stop near her home at somewhere in the region of 1.05 p.m.

According to Domingo Benavides' testimony, the shooting of Tippit could not have taken place later than about 1.12 p.m.

How could Oswald have got to the scene of Tippit's shooting in less than seven minutes and why would he have done so?

The bus stop at which Oswald was standing was for buses headed north. The Tippit site was to the south. ...Testimony stated that Tippit's murderer approached from the east, but Oswald would have been approaching from the west. So did he walk past the site of the murder, and seeing Tippit driving down the street, and being on the run, turn around and go back to confront him?

(GBinOz)


It would hardly have been possible for Oswald to have shot Tippit unless he had hailed a cab to take him to the site of the Tippit shooting.

Why would he have done that?

[cobalt]

Why did Oswald go back to the rooming house? Presumably to obtain a jacket since it would become cooler later in the day but also, we are led to assume, to pick up a revolver. Had Oswald been planning an assassination that day it might have been a good idea to have taken the revolver to the TSBD in the event of his being confronted whilst making his 'escape.' If he intended going down James Cagney style in a hail of police bullets, then Elm Street or the roof of the TSBD would have been a good location, better than a small local cinema. At the very least taking a revolver to the TSBD would have saved Oswald a taxi fare and given him more time to go where on earth he was headed.

If Oswald felt he needed a revolver for security I cannot see how that ties in with a suicidal shoot out with the police. I have never placed much trust in the melodramatic arrest account in the cinema as relayed by the DPD. More likely to me is Oswald meeting a contact at a pre-arranged place but fearing he might be double crossed at the meeting.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Why did Oswald go back to the rooming house? Presumably to obtain a jacket since it would become cooler later in the day but also, we are led to assume, to pick up a revolver. Had Oswald been planning an assassination that day it might have been a good idea to have taken the revolver to the TSBD in the event of his being confronted whilst making his 'escape.' If he intended going down James Cagney style in a hail of police bullets, then Elm Street or the roof of the TSBD would have been a good location, better than a small local cinema. At the very least taking a revolver to the TSBD would have saved Oswald a taxi fare and given him more time to go where on earth he was headed.

If Oswald felt he needed a revolver for security I cannot see how that ties in with a suicidal shoot out with the police. I have never placed much trust in the melodramatic arrest account in the cinema as relayed by the DPD. More likely to me is Oswald meeting a contact at a pre-arranged place but fearing he might be double crossed at the meeting.

I didn't get your point about the taxi, but your earlier point about the revolver is important.

One might ask why if Oswald took a rifle into the TSBD, intending to leave it there, he did not take a revolver with.

I agree with you that he took the revolver to the cinema because he smelled a rat, and that makes sense if he had reason to think that he would be blamed for the assassination even if he had some assurance that he would be able to get away with his alleged crime.

Why would he go back to his room to get his revolver for a trip to Oak Cliff, to walk around there?

[cobalt]

The taxi journey to the rooming house to pick up a revolver is evidence that Oswald had no plan of escape worth the name. To me this points to him being innocent of the assassination and acting on impulse when realising he had been set up.

I've heard it claimed that Oswald was expecting to be killed inside the TSBD after assassinating JFK but that is completely at odds with him later turning up inside a cinema carrying a concealed revolver. If he was prepared to die why not go down in a shoot out inside the cinema with Cry of Battle on the screen?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The taxi journey to the rooming house to pick up a revolver is evidence that Oswald had no plan of escape worth the name. To me this points to him being innocent of the assassination and acting on impulse when realising he had been set up.

I've heard it claimed that Oswald was expecting to be killed inside the TSBD after assassinating JFK but that is completely at odds with him later turning up inside a cinema carrying a concealed revolver. If he was prepared to die why not go down in a shoot out inside the cinema with Cry of Battle on the screen?

Oswald could be fairly confident that he was not going to be arrested in the TSBD because when police entered the building, he was not in possession of a rifle.

I am suggesting that he had foreknowledge of the assassination and that he was suspicious of the purpose of his being required to make contact with an unnamed person in the cinema.

If Oswald was a lone assassin, his logical next move was to get out of Dallas, out of Texas, and out of America, in that order.

In answer to those who say he was not logical because he was obviously a psycho, anyone who could plan the assassination of the President at three days' notice and calmly walk out of the building from which he fired the shots without arousing any suspicion, would have to be a cool customer and perfectly logical.

Why would such a person get his revolver and then rush to Oak Cliff as if on an assignment to murder a policeman there?

I suggest that Tippit was set up to be murdered and that is why he was not directed to Dealey Plaza.

Oswald was the fall guy again and this time, he 'confirms' that he is the kind of person who would have murdered the President.

Six witnesses confirmed that he could not both have been wearing the grey jacket found and have shot Tippit: four witnesses to the shooting who were definite that the jacket was darker, Mrs Roberts, who saw him leaving his rooming house with a dark jacket, and Frazier, who said he had never seen him wearing a jacket like that found.

Two witnesses said that Tippit's murderer was wearing a sport jacket.

Oswald did not own a sport jacket.

Five witnesses described a murderer with hair that obviously did not belong to Oswald: slightly bushy, bushy, wavy, curly, and black.

Based on Roberts' and Benavides' evidence, Oswald had perhaps seven minutes to get from the bus stop to Oak Cliff, find Tippit, and shoot him.

But why?

The whole prosecution case against him is of a murderer fleeing the scene of an assassination and, in desperation, shooting a policeman who is about to arrest him.

But why would Oswald go to Oak Cliff?

[cobalt]

'If Oswald was a lone assassin, his logical next move was to get out of Dallas, out of Texas, and out of America, in that order.'

I don't think that could be denied by anyone, no matter which side of the debate they sit on. Yet Oswald did not do this.

If Oswald didn't need a revolver to help carry out an assassination, it's baffling as to why he needed one to visit the local cinema.

'I suggest that Tippit was set up to be murdered and that is why he was not directed to Dealey Plaza.'

That's taking what evidence we have a very long way. The gunman could have shot Tippit through the side window (open or not seems disputed) and would surely have stopped Tippit by a hand signal rather than wait to approached himself. The Tippit shooting looks like a rendez-vous which has gone wrong to me.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

'If Oswald was a lone assassin, his logical next move was to get out of Dallas, out of Texas, and out of America, in that order.'

The Tippit shooting looks like a rendez-vous which has gone wrong to me.

If Tippit and his killer had arranged to meet and for reasons unknown to us were mutually mistrustful, and that led to the shooting, and the idea of framing Oswald for it was an afterthought, could that explain why it took some thirty minutes for the police to locate Oswald, again supposedly mysteriously wandering the streets?