JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Herlock Sholmes]

And an issue that’s never responded to Caz is concerning his order sheet which, as you know, was on a clip board and found on the 6th floor. Oswald was an order picker. He had to fill in his sheet as he picked the books and put the orders together to show that the order was complete. Then he would take his orders downstairs via the lift, with the filled in order sheet so that another employee could prepare them for being despatched to the customer. Oswald’s order form had 3 orders on it for him to pick. He hadn’t filled in the form.

This can only mean that from the time that he arrived at work to the moment he left the building after the assassination Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t do a stroke of work. This can only mean 3 things:

1. He was otherwise occupied.

2. He wasn’t concerned with providing evidence that he’d been working.

3. When we combine No.2 with the fact that he’d left Marina the large sum of $170 (far, far more than he’d ever given her before) and also that he’d left his wedding ring we can only conclude that this was a man who, a) expected never to return to the TSBD or home, and b) fully expected to be arrested.

This indicates the very opposite of an innocent man.

[caz]

Perhaps someone could post the ‘evidence’ that LBJ and Hoover ordered that all evidence of a conspiracy suppressed. I might as well ask for someone to produce a photograph of a unicorn of course because conspiracist all do the same thing. They read a perfectly normal, unremarkable non-sinister comment and ‘interpret’ it to suit their purposes.

Hi Herlock,

It would be interesting to see the exact wording of any such instructions [if this hasn't already been posted following your observations - I ought to catch up with all the latest posts before reacting to any]. But could it be that what LBJ and Hoover may have ordered was not the suppression of actual evidence that Oswald did not act alone, but the suppression of unsupported and unbridled speculation that this was the case, which could pose a very real threat to national security if it was spread abroad to the great unwashed, who would naturally lap it all up?

Love,

Caz
X

[Aethelwulf]

Well kindly clarify for posterity - is that the "clearly functional line" upon which the Pullman Dining car was parked on 22 Nov 1963? Or was Desroe standing on the back of a Pullman Dining car that was loaded on a lorry, or perhaps he was on your postulated bus which was disguised as a Pullman Dining car???

GB: Posts links to 'science' of faked AP film. Evidence - none
GB: Believes medical evidence is faked. Evidence - none
GB: Physical impossibility that a Pullman carriage could have been on the tracks that actually exist in proximity to the car park, grassy knoll and picket fence

[Fiver]

I wrote some time ago that no one ever bettered the assassin's shooting performance at a first attempt and I think the CBS results confirm that.

The CBS results still prove you wrong, even when you move the goalposts.

Al Sherman: 5.00 seconds (2 hits, 1 near miss) on his 1^st run of 5.

William Fitchett: 6.50 seconds (3 borderline hits) on his 1^st run of 3.

John Bollendorf: 6.80 seconds (2 hits, 1 near miss) on his 1^st run of 4.

Most of the CBS volunteers had no previous experience with the Carcano. Some had no previous experience with any bolt action rifle.

Yet 3 of them exceeded Oswald's performance on their first attempts.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The CBS results still prove you wrong, even when you move the goalposts.

Al Sherman: 5.00 seconds (2 hits, 1 near miss) on his 1^st run of 5.

William Fitchett: 6.50 seconds (3 borderline hits) on his 1^st run of 3.

John Bollendorf: 6.80 seconds (2 hits, 1 near miss) on his 1^st run of 4.

Most of the CBS volunteers had no previous experience with the Carcano. Some had no previous experience with any bolt action rifle.

Yet 3 of them exceeded Oswald's performance on their first attempts.

And according to PI the conspirators hired such an incompetent Grassy Knoll gunman that he couldn’t hit a target around 30 yards away travelling at a mere 11mph without needing Greer to deliberately slow that car down even more.

And if he wasn’t very good how could they have manipulated the wounds if he’d managed to hit Kennedy in the side of his neck and the bullet had gone right through to hit Jackie? Or if it had hit on the right eyebrow area and gone through. Or if he’d have missed and struck someone watching the motorcade. They really couldn’t have selected a worse position for a gunman. Directly in front of a police car park with a railway tower at the back? No plotters could have been that stupid.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Not forgetting of course that if Kennedy and Connally were hit by separate bullets that would mean 2 gunmen from behind (as suggested by Cyril Wecht) What evidence is there of that? Absolutely none.

[Herlock Sholmes]

GB: Posts links to 'science' of faked AP film. Evidence - none
GB: Believes medical evidence is faked. Evidence - none
GB: Physical impossibility that a Pullman carriage could have been on the tracks that actually exist in proximity to the car park, grassy knoll and picket fence

And he has never acknowledged the fake FBI memo Wulf.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

It would be interesting to see the exact wording of any such instructions [if this hasn't already been posted following your observations - I ought to catch up with all the latest posts before reacting to any]. But could it be that what LBJ and Hoover may have ordered was not the suppression of actual evidence that Oswald did not act alone, but the suppression of unsupported and unbridled speculation that this was the case, which could pose a very real threat to national security if it was spread abroad to the great unwashed, who would naturally lap it all up?

Love,

Caz
X

This is one of the Hoover/LBJ memo’s that have been posted

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/social-chat/other-mysteries/10932-jfk-assassination-documents-to-be-released-this-year?p=804232#post804232

I think there’s another one. Not one of them mention a cover up. They mention not knowing things or not being sure of things so we have to ask why they would be saying this if they both knew that there was a conspiracy. It’s crystal clear that neither LBJ nor Hoover had any prior knowledge of the assassination.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

On the last point it’s hard to understand the assassin’s reason for hiding the rifle, when he had left behind the ejected shells.

The only one I can think of is that the rifle was in the same place before, during and after the assassination.

No-one found it before the assassination because no-one was looking for a rifle.

It would have been an easy matter for someone to place the empty cartridge cases under the window shortly before the assassination without anyone noticing, but to place a rifle on the sixth floor shortly before the assassination would likely have attracted attention.

As I pointed out before, no-one saw Oswald carrying a rifle or anything that could have contained a rifle or its components anywhere in the TSBD.

I think someone retorted that no-one saw anyone else with a rifle in the TSBD.

Of course, because the rifle had been put in the place where it was later found at such a time that no-one who could later have testified about it would have noticed it being done.

[caz]

Castro also made the screamingly obvious point that no assassin would surely shoot a prominent political figure from his place of work where discovery would be inevitable.

So an innocent Oswald - or indeed a guilty one - could have stayed around with his fellow workers, discussing what had just happened, because it would have been 'screamingly obvious' that no assassin would surely have done such a thing from his place of work where discovery would be inevitable?

But apparently Oswald wasn't told this and made a bolt for it, for all the world like a guilty man who had only just realised that his discovery would be 'inevitable'. And apparently the conspirators never considered it a problem either, to try and frame a man who would 'surely' not have assassinated a prominent political figure from his place of work. In fact, it should have been 'screamingly obvious' to the conspirators that nobody would surely believe Oswald had done what they wanted him accused of doing.

Castro was none too bright, was he?

Love,

Caz
X

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I trust you were suitably chastened by Mr Integrity's treatise on the "proper use of evidence" (#1655).

Just to refresh one's memory.


Here is the sequence of posts:


I already answered this in the post you quoted. Helen Markham's testimony under was that everything that Mark Lane claimed that she said was a lie by Mark Lane.

(Fiver, # 1653)


A lesson to PI, Fishy and George on how to properly evaluate witnesses with out the conspiracy goggles on Fiver.

You bit on Helen Markham is a perfect example but I guarantee that she’ll continue to be quoted by conspiracy theorists. It’s called cherry-picking.

Excellent, balanced post with a proper use of evidence.

(Herlock Shomes, [commenting on # 1653], # 1655)



I cannot think of a better example of the use of selective quotation to prove the opposite of what really happened.

I wonder how many readers now believe that Mark Lane invented his conversation with Helen Markham and that I got it wrong because I am a supposedly-gullible conspiracy theorist.


Now take a look at testimony of Helen Markham that Fiver omitted.

When Helen Markham appeared before the Warren Commission, she was provided with a transcript of her telephone conversation with Mark Lane and an audio recording of the same conversation was played to her.

Here are some extracts from the court record:

[Extracts follow]


The Warren Commission accepted that the man's voice on the recording was that of Mark Lane and that the woman's voice was that of Helen Markham.

Eventually, in her testimony, Helen Markham agreed that the woman's voice on the recording was hers.

Consequently, it was proven beyond any doubt that the conversation between Mark Lane and Helen Markham did take place.

Consequently, what I reported is proven to be true and your assertion that I was wrong and that Mark Lane lied about his conversation with Helen Markham is proven to be false.

The Warren Commission accepted that Mark Lane had told the truth, as confirmed by the tape recording, the transcript of it, and the transcript of the Commission's proceedings.

I wonder whether you will accept that that is the truth and that what I have written is true.

(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, # 1666)



The silence is deafening.


(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, # 1679)




Still no response.

This is, unfortunately, what happens when defenders of the Warren Commission Report are proven wrong on substantive issues: they shut up.

The same happened when they were confronted with the impossibility of a hunchback Kennedy managing to raise the wound in his back to a level in the car some six inches higher than it would have been in any reasonably normal sitting position: a refusal to respond.

Because there is no satisfactory answer.

Even the Warren Commission accepted that Lane told the truth about his conversation with Markham.

Strangely, the Commission's supporters here are so hostile to the views of so-called Conspiracy Theorists that they have outdone the Warren Commission.

That is quite an achievement.

[caz]

If it was screamingly obvious then an equally obvious question would have to be “why would our top level conspirators have been so stupid as to set up such an unbelievable patsy?

Precisely, Herlock.

So who is more likely to have either made an error of judgment or to have cared little about being caught? A massive governmental conspiracy including CIA and military (who can plan things like invasions) or a single, disaffected little man?

Its obvious. The man who left his wedding ring and virtually every cent that he owned behind.

I think cobalt just reasoned himself out of a cunning plan to accuse a man who would surely not have shot JFK from his place of work.

It's screamingly obvious, isn't it, that whoever was behind the assassination was not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Perhaps you have heard of John Wilkes Booth, a prominent actor who shot Lincoln in a theater?

Oswald's fleeing the scene is more than most Presidential assassins did to avoid capture.

1835 - Lone gunman Richard Lawrence tries to shoot Andrew Jackson and is captured immediately.
1881 - Lone gunman Charles J. Guiteau shoots James Garfield and is captured immediately.
1901 - Lone gunman Leon Czolgosz shoots William McKinley and is captured immediately.
1909 - Lone gunman Julius Bergerson is disarmed and captured before he can get a shot off at William Taft.
1912 - Lone gunman John Schrank shoots Theodore Roosevelt and is captured immediately.
1833 - Lone gunman Giuseppe Zangar tries to shoot FDR and is captured immediately.
1975 - Lone gunwoman Lynette Fromme tries to shoot Gerald Ford and is captured immediately.
1975 - Lone gunwoman Sara Jane Moore ries to shoot Gerald Ford and is captured immediately.
1981 - Lone gunman John Hinkley shoots Ronald Reagan and is captured immediately.

1812 - Lone gunman John Bellingham shoots the prime minister, Spencer Perceval, in the lobby of the House of Commons.

'In the pandemonium that followed, Bellingham sat quietly on a bench as Perceval was carried into the Speaker's quarters. In the lobby, such was the confusion that, according to a witness, had Bellingham "walked quietly out into the street, he would have escaped, and the committer of the murder would never have been known".
As it was, an official who had seen the shooting identified Bellingham, who was seized, disarmed, manhandled and searched. He remained calm, submitting to his captors without a struggle. When asked to explain his actions, Bellingham replied that he was rectifying a denial of justice on the part of the government.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Spencer_Perceval

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

You might add John Bellingham who shot PM Spencer Percival in the lobby of the House of Commons. He just sat down on a bench after he’d done it.

And Nathuram Vinayak Godse who killed Gandhi in the middle of a crowd and was captured there and then.

Or Mehmet Ali Agca who shot Pope John Paul II in a St Peter’s Square crowd and was immediately captured.

Ah, you got there before me, Herlock.

One British conspiracy I would accept is if Boris comes out of Partygate with all the egg conveniently scrubbed off his naughty schoolboy face.

Love,

Caz
X

[Fiver]

Police Motorcyclist Bobby Hargis was spattered with blood and brain matter while riding to Kennedy's left and rear.

Hargis: Well, that right there is what I've wondered about all along, but see there's ah -- you've got to take into consideration we were moving at the time, and when he got hit all that stuff went like this, and of course I run through it.

Jacqueline Kennedy retrieved a piece of the President's skull from the back of the limousine.

Mrs Kennedy had no idea why she climbed onto the trunk of the limo and did not remember doing it. The most common speculation is she was trying retrieve part of he husband's brain. She did hand part of his brain to a doctor at the hospital.

That means a headshot came from the front.

Still and motion pictures disprove your theory, as does the skull x=ray.

If you want to argue that the brain matter, blood and piece of skull were thrown backwards, by a shot from behind, then you should be arguing that debris and blood seen moving forward were caused by an additional shot from the front.

Are you prepared to do that?

Your lack of knowledge about backsplash is not proof. Clint Hill had the best view of the headshot, he said Kennedy was shot in the back of the head, then the right side of JFK's head exploded outward. X-rays support this. Still photographs support this. The Zapruder film supports this and shows that the majority of debris was projected forward. The lesser amount found behind JFK is easily explained by backsplash and the limo moving forward.

The only bullet fragments found in the limo, JFK, and Connally came from Oswald's Carcano. A bullet from the Grassy Knoll would have to leave a bigger entrance wound than entrance wound, turn left inside JFK's brain, and leave no bullet fragments anywhere.