JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

I have just cited the evidence of eight witnesses that the back wound was [B]between five and six inches below the neckline,

You have claimed that eight witnesses placed the back wound 5 to 6 inches below the neckline, but you haven't cited any of those claims.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Ignore a mound of inconvenient evidence but jump up and down over the difference between brown and grey.

(HERLOCK SHOMES, # 1056)


It matters very much whether the jacket allegedly discarded by Oswald was grey or brown.

(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1, # 1059)


Witnesses can often make errors. Usually minor ones like this. When someone is passing you in the street you don’t write down a description of his clothing. A light brown and a light grey can look similar.

(HERLOCK SHOMES, # 1061)


I am afraid not, Herlock.

All of your efforts to paper over the evident cracks in the prosecution case against Oswald are in vain.

You see, the jacket Oswald was alleged to have worn when he allegedly shot Tippit was not of such a colour that it could have seemed grey or brown, depending on who saw it, but grey-BLUE.

[Fiver]

Bonnie Ray Williams thought he heard two shots, not three. He changed his mind later. He was not asked by the WC about where he thought the shots came from. He heard neither shots nor movement above him on the 6^th floor. Since Williams was eating alone on the 6^th floor until at least 12.15pm, the time the motorcade was due to arrive, he would have had the opportunity to sense if someone else was in that area. He said he was aware of no one else being there at that time.

Williams gave time estimates of leaving the 6th floor between 12:05 and "Approximately 12:20, maybe." All of his time estimates were vague

Williams testified to hearing three shots. He was unsure of the location of the first shot, but believed the second and third shots came from inside the building.

Williams testified that Harold Norman said the shots had come from directly above them and responded by saying "No bull ****." a clear agreement with Norman.

Junior Jarman thought the shots came from ‘below him and to the left.’ He thought the 3^rd shot came ‘right behind’ the 2^nd shot. He heard neither shots nor movement from the 6^th floor.

Jarman testified to Norman saying the shots had come from above them. Jarman also testified that he thought the shots came from inside the building.

Harold Norman alone heard what he thought were ejected shells and a bolt action rifle being operated ‘directly above us.’ He did not mention this in his first interview where he talked about poking his head out of the window and trying to look up to the 6^th floor, something verified by other witnesses.

Jarman and Williams confirmed Norman's testimony about hearing what he thought were ejected shells and a bolt action rifle being operated on the 7th floor directly above them.

Norman had previous;y mentioned these things in a 4 December 1963 interview.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ignore a mound of inconvenient evidence but jump up and down over the difference between brown and grey.

(HERLOCK SHOMES, # 1056)


It matters very much whether the jacket allegedly discarded by Oswald was grey or brown.

(PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1, # 1059)


Witnesses can often make errors. Usually minor ones like this. When someone is passing you in the street you don’t write down a description of his clothing. A light brown and a light grey can look similar.

(HERLOCK SHOMES, # 1061)


I am afraid not, Herlock.

All of your efforts to paper over the evident cracks in the prosecution case against Oswald are in vain.

You see, the jacket Oswald was alleged to have worn when he allegedly shot Tippit was not of such a colour that it could have seemed grey or brown, depending on who saw it, but grey-BLUE.

I notice that you have responded to the post where I responded to your claim that Oswald had discarded his jacket when Calloway saw him. Do you acknowledge that you were wrong? Because you 100% are wrong.

There are no cracks. Calloway saw him. How many cases can you name when so many people ID’d a suspect but they were all wrong? 8 to 10 witnesses, all wrong. What are the chances of that do you think? Where did you get grey-blue from? Are you confusing this with the jacket he left at the TSBD which was blue?

And you haven’t responded about Mark Lane, clearly in black and white trying to badger Helen Markham in to saying what he wanted her to say. No wonder he was reluctant to release the tape and the transcript. It’s why Lane threatened to sue Bugliosi if he read out the transcript at a debate. Why didn’t he want it heard I wonder. I think that we all know the answer to that one.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

There are no cracks.... Where did you get grey-blue from?


There are indeed cracks.

And your claim that the jacket allegedly worn by Oswald could have looked grey or brown is disproven, as I said, because the said jacket was grey-blue, not grey-brown.

Where did I get it from?

Why, from the Warren Commission itself!

[cobalt]

Jarman and Williams confirmed Norman's testimony about hearing what he thought were ejected shells and a bolt action rifle being operated on the 7th floor directly above them.
I’m sure you slipped up and meant the 6^th floor. I think you slipped up when claiming that 4 CBS shooters bettered the assassin’s shooting performance 1^st time. Since the results are on here everyone can make their own judgment on the numbers.

The notion that Oswald was messing around setting up boxes and assembling rifles instead of filling orders has absolutely zero evidence to support it. The clipboard belonging to Oswald was discovered on 2^nd December, often claimed to be ‘close to where the rifle was found.’ It was on the 6^th floor about 15 yards away as it happened, but close to the elevator that Oswald would have taken down to the domino room when breaking for lunch. His supervisor Bill Shelley observed in a statement that Oswald had been carrying out his duties as per usual that morning.
Three outstanding orders were reportedly found on Oswald’s clipboard which must have excited the two FBI agents tasked with cementing the case against Oswald. No doubt they pressed Shelley to testify that this was clear evidence of Oswald being distracted but no such testimony ever emerged. As anyone who ever worked in a factory or an office knows, a chargehand or supervisor can explain how quickly a task would be expected to be completed and in the case of Oswald it must have been irrelevant. The FBI hit a dead end with that one.

As for our assassin, Castro’s point was not that the assassin was stupid; far from it. He did refer to ‘the plot’ which had succeeded in its aim. He specifically said that for Oswald to have been the assassin would have been suicidal which many people other than Castro saw from day one. Fidel was obviously well informed of the shenanigans in the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City and being on the CIA hitlist, he knew a conspiracy when he saw one.

[Fiver]

[SIZE=16px]He could hardly name them since he was earmarked for a swift execution.

Swift? Oswald was murdered over 45 hours after he was arrested.

In addition, Oswald’s alleged left wing sympathies allowed Johnson leverage over the Warren Commission in respect of his threatening a nuclear Armageddon.

Alleged? Oswald started advocating communist ideals in Junior High.

And how would Oswald's obvious communism give LBJ leverage over anyone? The only risk of nuclear war was if the American public came to believe thay Oswald was acting on orders from Castro or Moscow.

[Fiver]

I think you slipped up when claiming that 4 CBS shooters bettered the assassin’s shooting performance 1^st time. Since the results are on here everyone can make their own judgment on the numbers.

I stated the facts,

The CBS results still prove you wrong, even when you move the goalposts.

Al Sherman: 5.00 seconds (2 hits, 1 near miss) on his 1^strun of 5.

William Fitchett: 6.50 seconds (3 borderline hits) on his 1^st run of 3.

John Bollendorf: 6.80 seconds (2 hits, 1 near miss) on his 1^st run of 4.

You do understand the meaning of the word 1st, don't you?

Most of the CBS volunteers had no previous experience with the Carcano. Some had no previous experience with any bolt action rifle.

Yet 3 of them exceeded Oswald's performance on their first attempts.

[caz]

This is one of the Hoover/LBJ memo’s that have been posted

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/social-chat/other-mysteries/10932-jfk-assassination-documents-to-be-released-this-year?p=804232#post804232

I think there’s another one. Not one of them mention a cover up. They mention not knowing things or not being sure of things so we have to ask why they would be saying this if they both knew that there was a conspiracy. It’s crystal clear that neither LBJ nor Hoover had any prior knowledge of the assassination.

Cheers, Herlock.

How do conspiracy believers explain why there would be unambiguous evidence of a conspiracy to frame Oswald as a lone gunman in any such surviving written communications? Isn't it 'screamingly obvious' to them that such evidence would never have been allowed to see the light of day if it had once existed?

It's instructive that this evidence can only be viewed while wearing a pair of Fisher-Price conspiracy goggles. The conspirators didn't think of that old trick to see through their wicked attempts to deceive.

Love,

Caz
X

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Oswald started advocating communist ideals in Junior High.

Was that before or after he joined the Civil Air Patrol?

Why do you think he joined it?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Cheers, Herlock.

How do conspiracy believers explain why there would be unambiguous evidence of a conspiracy to frame Oswald as a lone gunman in any such surviving written communications? Isn't it 'screamingly obvious' to them that such evidence would never have been allowed to see the light of day if it had once existed?

It's instructive that this evidence can only be viewed while wearing a pair of Fisher-Price conspiracy goggles. The conspirators didn't think of that old trick to see through their wicked attempts to deceive.

Love,

Caz
X

No problem Caz, yeah it’s the same approach with the Warren Commission. I think it was 2 or possibly 3 members who later openly expressed their doubts about aspects of the lone gunman suggestion. These weren’t very ‘on message’ were they? Conspiracy theorists see what they want to see and spend far too much time reading between the lines when they should be paying more attention to just reading the lines.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Another question. If Oswald was being set up why didn’t they order the rifle and the revolver in Oswald’s own name? Why bother ordering it under an assumed name and then have to get Oswald to carry cards with that assumed name on it? They went to the trouble of forging his handwriting after all.

I just found out that in Oswald’s possession were:

A bogus Selective Service system notice of classification in the name of Alek James Hidell.
A bogus certificate of service in the US Marine Corps in the name of Alek James Hidell.
A bogus smallpox vaccination certificate issued to Dr. AJ Hideel, PO Box 30016, New Orleans, La.
And when he started a rump chapter of the FPCC in New Orleans he had Marina sign the membership cards with AJ Hidell as chapter President.

Obviously Oswald was a completely innocent man.

[caz]

After talking to Caz about how Oswald got his job and after hearing discussions on the likelihood of conspirators getting a ‘patsy’ like Oswald in the TSBD I thought that I’d look into Oswald’s employment record to assess the likelihoods. We can recall of course that Jim Garrison saw ‘the guiding hand of conspiracy’ in putting Oswald in place.

When Oswald failed to get to Cuba he arrived in Dallas by bus on October 3rd 1963 and took a room at the YMCA as Marina and June were living with Ruth Paine. The next day he responded to a newspaper advertisement from the Padgett Printing Company. The superintendent, Theodore Gangl, was impressed by him but decided to check his references; one of which was from a company called Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall. He phoned Robert Stovall who spoke to a subordinate who informed him that Oswald was a bit peculiar and that he had some knowledge of Russian. Stovall told Gangl: “Ted, I don’t know, this guy may be a damned Communist, I can’t tell you. If I was you, I wouldn’t hire him.” Gangl didn’t hire him. Oswald contacted Marina then moved out of the YMCA and into a rented room and lounged around for a few days.

Next, Oswald went to the Texas Employment Commission who arranged 4 interviews for him - Solid State Electronics, Harrel and Harrington (architects) Texas Power and Light and Burton-Dixie - none of which were successful. Then he had some luck.

After a coffee klatch (whatever one of those is - I’m assuming a coffee morning?) involving Ruth Paine, Marina Oswald, Linnie Mae Randle and Dorothy Roberts, Randle mentioned that her brother, Buell Frazier, had got a job at the TSBD. Marina asked Ruth to give them a call (Marina’s English was poor) Ruth spoke to Roy Truly who told her that there might be a job available and to get Lee to go for an interview. Later the same evening Oswald phoned to talk to Marina and Ruth told him about the interview. He went the next day and got the job.

So, for conspirators to have somehow manoeuvred Oswald into place and to have arranged themself an ideally placed ‘patsy,’ the conspirators would have had to have:


Arranged that Solid State Electronics didn’t give Oswald a job.

Arranged that Harrel And Harrington didn’t give Oswald a job.

Arranged that Texas Power and Light didn’t give Oswald a job.

Arranged that Burton-Dixie didn’t give Oswald a job.

Ensured that the Texas Employment Commission only arranged interviews for Oswald at companies that wouldn’t give him a job.

Ensured that Linnie Mae Randle attended the coffee klatch after the conspirators discovered that her brother worked at the TSBD.

Ensured that Oswald didn’t get another job by any other method (someone he knew for example or another newspaper ad)

Ensured that there was a job available at the TSBD.

Ensured that Roy Truly gave him the job.

…..


Can anyone believe that anything like the above was remotely plausible? If not, then our conspirators luck was at lottery winning levels.

But of course, as we learned from Castro, via cobalt, the 'patsy' was not 'ideally placed' for the role of assassin. In fact, we are advised that he could not have been in a worse place, for the 'screamingly obvious' reason that no assassin would surely have chosen to shoot the President from his work place.

But miracles do happen, and while the conspirators may only have shared the one brain cell between them, Oswald played right into their clammy hands by proving to be his own worst enemy. Did an innocent 'patsy' ever behave as suspiciously as he did?

Love,

Caz
X

[Herlock Sholmes]

But of course, as we learned from Castro, via cobalt, the 'patsy' was not 'ideally placed' for the role of assassin. In fact, we are advised that he could not have been in a worse place, for the 'screamingly obvious' reason that no assassin would surely have chosen to shoot the President from his work place.

But miracles do happen, and while the conspirators may only have shared the one brain cell between them, Oswald played right into their clammy hands by proving to be his own worst enemy. Did an innocent 'patsy' ever behave as suspiciously as he did?

Love,

Caz
X

The list of things that Oswald did that made himself look guilty is a long one Caz. A simple one like lying about the curtain rods on its own is enough to completely dismiss the idea of Oswald being an innocent patsy.

Ive just had a thought Caz. What if there was a real AJ Hidell and he was from Cornwall? So when Oswald was in police custody he tried giving us a clue to this by saying “I am just a pasty.”

Ill get my coat.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Was that before or after he joined the Civil Air Patrol?

Why do you think he joined it?

Why do people join the Scouts, or the Army or a local amateur dramatics club? Why are conspiracy theorist simply unable to resist ‘reading into’ absolutely everything. Not everything has a sinister connotation. People just do things.