JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

Obviously this posed a problem for the narrative, as Oswald SHOULD have been on that staircase. It was the only way he could have got down to the 2nd floor lunchroom in time to meet Truly and Baker. He was on the second floor within 90 seconds of the shots being fired.
The recreation walkthrough showed that such a timing was possible, but never considered introducing any known factors that might dispute it.

If Victoria Adams was able to sprint down 4 flights of stairs in 60 seconds while wearing three inch heels it is a problem for Oswald killing JFK.

But it's an even bigger problem for the Conspiracists. NotOswald in the sniper's nest has to make it down one more floor and out of the building in the same amount of time.

[Fiver]

They twisted Bonnie Ray Williams in knots till he finally said something they liked and that became his testimony.

Williams put Oswald on the 6th floor around 11:55am, asking for the elevator to be sent back up. If that's the worst they can get, this is a pretty incompetent Conspiracy.

They turned Charles Givens into a super witness by somehow, (after several statements and affidavits made to FBI and DPD saying he had last seen Oswald pre 12.00pm when Givens went down for his lunch,) following a closed door session with Belin, he was suddenly on the sixth floor at 12:15 to 12:20 observing Oswald over by the snipers nest. A view that had they checked in advance would have proved pretty difficult to demonstrate with the boxes intact as the photos taken on the day showed that such a view was blocked.

Everything you say about Given's testimony is wrong.

Mr. BELIN. When did you see Lee Harvey Oswald next?
Mr. GIVENS. Next?
Mr. BELIN. Yes.
Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth floor.
I came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it. When I got back upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way.
Mr. BELIN. Coming from what way?
Mr. GIVENS. Toward the window up front where the shots were fired from.

Mr. BELIN. You were standing at that point, and where did you see Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I was along here [indicating].
Mr. BELIN. All right, you are pointing at a spot you say along in here?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. That would be near the east wall of the building?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You can see a scale here that is from 0 to 20 feet. Well, it would be about 30 to 40 feet north of the south wall of that building, is that right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And around 10 feet or so away from the east wall, is that about right?
Mr. GIVENS. That is about right.
Mr. BELIN. Now, did you notice whether or not there were any cartons stacked up around the southeast corner of that sixth floor? Mr. GIVENS. Well, I didn't pay any attention about any being stacked, because we had taken all that stock from that side of the building and ran it down that side.
Mr. BELIN. You had taken stock down from the west part of the sixth floor where you were working and put it there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; ran it down the side right in front of the window.
Mr. BELIN. Was he between that stock and the window, or was he on the other side of the window?
Mr. GIVENS. He was between the stock and the window, coming towards the elevators.
Mr. BELIN. Coming towards the elevators?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Now, you said that he had a clipboard in his hand?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes; he had his board with his orders on it.

Mr. BELIN. Did you watch where he walked to?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I didn't pay much attention. I was getting ready on the elevator, and I say, "Boy, are you going downstairs?"
Mr. BELIN. What did he say to you?
Mr. GIVENS. I say, "It's near lunch time."
He said, "No, sir. When you get downstairs, close the gate to the elevator." That meant the elevator on the west side, you can pull both gates down and it will come up by itself.
Mr. BELIN. What else did he say?
Mr. GIVENS. That is all.
Mr. BELIN. What did you say to that? Did you Say you would close the elevator gate, or not say anything?
Mr. GIVENS. I said, "Okay," and got on the elevator.

Givens saw Oswald around 11:45, around 40 feet from the sniper's nest, armed with a clipboard, walking towards the elevators. Givens didn't even notice if there was a sniper's nest.

If that's a 'super witness' then the Conspiracy are a pack of idiots.

[Fiver]

Arlen Specter gave an interview to US News and World Report in 1966. Almost 3 years after the Assassination. He became, Chief Investigator for the Warren Commission. ( His words)
in the interview he admits some shocking details. Like the contradiction between Parkland and Bethesday autopsy in terms of entry and exit wounds on Kennedy. He also said they used probabilities based on this some level of evidence and that the Warren Commission came up with the " conclusions". Shots came from behind because that's where the gun was found.
He also did not know ( in 1966) whether the FBI or WC had seen all the Kennedy photographs. He believed the WC did not but it would not have changed the outcome. He was unsure of the FBIs actual involvement period.
Specter also goes on to say that both Parkland and Bethesda had " limited access" to the body but he felt Humes had enough time for producing a detailed Autopsy report. Eventhough Humes destroyed his notes? ( or was told to?).
Kennedys body was being prepared the morning of the 23rd.
Limited access and time ?? Conclusions based on probabilities? We didn't need to see all the photographs?
Specter in 1966. He had no idea who suppressed the photographs.

That's an inaccurate description of the 1966 US News and World Report article.

"it would be presumptuous of me to characterize my role as that of "chief investigator" on a key part of the assassination investigation."

"The photographs and X-rays would, in the thinking of the Commission, not have been crucial, because they would have served only to corroborate what the autopsy surgeons had testified to under oath, as opposed to adding any new facts for the Commission."

" It is my view now, and it has always been my view as a general proposition, that the greater the quantity of relevant evidence on any subject, the better off the fact finder is in knowing all of the material factors. So, from that generalization, it would follow that, even as corroborative information, photographs and X-rays would always be helpful."

"Let me add one thought at this point, and that is that at the time the autopsy surgeons testified, in March of 1964, they had no way of knowing whether the photographs and X-rays would later be available to the Commission, to corroborate or to impeach their testimony."

Sure...I'm going to believe the Chief Investigator for the WC who apparently...just wasn't sure.

Spector never claimed to be the Chief Investigator, And he was sure about a lot of things.

"The evidence is overwhelming that Lee Harvey Oswald was the assassin of President Kennedy. There can be no real doubt on that subject, based on the factors of ownership of the weapon which was found on the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building, the handwriting links to Oswald's having ordered that weapon, the fact that it is scientifically, ballistically proved beyond question that the whole bullet found on the stretcher in Parkland Hospital came from that weapon, that the two major fragments found in the front seat of the presidential limousine came from that weapon.

Further indications of Oswald's guilt are his rapid exit, fleeing from the site of the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building and the later killing of Officer [J.D.] Tippit, which was witnessed by several people, plus photographs showing Oswald holding a rifle identified as being the Manlicher-Carcano which was used.

In conjunction with a whole host of other evidence, those were just highlights which, I think, answer conclusively and far beyond that which we normally proven criminal cases that Oswald was the assassin."

And

"I would certainly stand foursquare behind the Commission's conclusion that there was absolutely no evidence called to the Commission's attention which would indicate a coconspirator on the case."

And

"There were people who ran off in the direction of the grassy knoll, but there was no one who saw anyone on the grassy knoll with a weapon, as, for example, eyewitnesses did see a rifle protruding from the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building. There were no ballistic marks of any shot having come from the area of the grassy knoll, as there were indications that shots came above and to the rear — for example, the wound on Governor Connally's back and the wound on the back of the President's head, and the mark on the windshield of the presidential limousine, which indicated that at least a fragment of a bullet had struck the windshield from the rear."

And

" I think it is important to note that the conclusion that one bullet went through the President's neck and inflicted all the wounds on the Governor was not a prerequisite to the Commission's conclusion that Oswald was the sole assassin. The point is often made that such a conclusion is indispensable to a single-assassin finding, but that is not so."

[Fiver]

if there is no body, there is no evidence from that body admissable at a trial.

That is true, but irrelevant. JFK's body did not cease to exist just because it was moved.

[scottnapa]

That is true, but irrelevant. JFK's body did not cease to exist just because it was moved.

Wow. Finally.

[scottnapa]

That is true, but irrelevant. JFK's body did not cease to exist just because it was moved.

Wow. Finally.

[scottnapa]

THE MIINOX CAMERA part 1
The camera is proof of FBI malfeasance, but not everyone understands or sees it for what it is. Often WC apologists like DVP shampoo rinse and repeat troublesome issues. Quoting DVP's web page:
BEN HOLMES SAID:
The Minox camera (and the way the FBI dealt with it) demonstrates a 'conspiracy' to hide the evidence of Oswald's intelligence connections.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
The only possible response to this item on Holmes' silly list is -- LOL!
I guess maybe Holmes thinks President Kennedy was shot with a Minox camera on Elm Street, huh?
This is how far down the "evidence chain" a mega-kook like Ben Holmes must dig in order to satisfy their need for a "plot" in the JFK case. Pathetic, isn't it?

DVP is not interested in the truth
He has a greater need: to mock someone who disagrees with him .

Nor is Mr. Holmes 100% correct, the FBI is presenting fiction as fact.
It is a post-assassination slight-of-hand; a coverup rather than a conspiracy, as the camera plays no role in the assassination, And this FBI conspiracy is limited to J Edgar Hoover who denies the Minox camera was found in the Paine's garage.FBI wants no items that suggests any connection with gathering There are significant rumors in Dallas that Oswald was a paid CIA and FBI informant. So no CIA ONI MI or FBI leads are wanted or followed up on.
Theresult is the FBI is willing to destroy and manipulate evidence. In this instance the deception is based on optics—the public image of this Minox spy camera is based on it’s use in James Bond movies. The camera’s size makes it idea for indoor espionage work. Photographing items in a safe or secret documents. No flash. That is why light meter is utilized for low light situations.

[scottnapa]

THE MIINOX CAMERA part 2
Testimony of Gus Rose, the Dallas Police officer before the House select committee on Assassinations (HSChereA):

The HSCA turns a critical eye on FBI and CIA deceptions
Unlike the WC and DVP, the HSCA chose to investigate with a dedication to facts.

MORIARTY - How many photographs and negatives did you find?
ROSE - We found quite, several photographs.
MORIARTY - I mean of him. ("Him" refers to Lee Oswald) ( PHOTO discussed is taken in Japan uploaded)
ROSE - Oh, of this particular, I don't recall but the one photograph and the negative.
MORIARTY - I think we last talked about a Minox camera and some film in it being among the property.
ROSE - We found this camera and of course, we brought it and a whole lot of other property in, as possible evidence in the case. And uh, while we were marking the evidence for later identification by us to be used in evidence we did, Stovall and I, did take a close look at this Minox miniature camera and it did have a roll of film in it. As time passed and after the Warren Commission was appointed, uh, a couple of F.B.I. agents made three different trips to our office to talk to me about this camera. They said that after they had received all the property they found that I had made a mistake, and that that really wasn't a camera, it was a Minox light meter. However, as I told them at the time, I was sure that I had not made a mistake, it definitely was a camera and definitely did have film in it. However, they wanted me to change that in our property invoice to read Minox light meter and not read Minox camera. We never did change it. Uh, Captain Fritz instructed me if I was sure I was right not to make any changes in any reports, tay with what was right.

[Fiver]

Wow. Finally.

All evidence from the JFK autopsy would have been legal for a trial in Texas. JFK's body did not cease to exist just because it was moved.

[Fiver]

There is sufficient proof of FBI intervention. One, insertion; changing newspaper story in Times Herald.

The Dallas Times Herald article said "Dr. Perry added, "It is conceivable it was one wound, but there was no way for me to tell. It did however appear to be the entrance wound at the front of the throat." The article makes it clear that the two wounds that might be from the same bullet are "Wounds in the lower front portion of the neck and the right rear side of the head."

Why would the FBI, or anyone else, for that matter, insert the idea that the head wound and the neck wound were from the same bullet? If they were manipulating the press, why would they leave in "The front neck hole was described as an entrance wound. The wound at the back of the head, while the principal one, was either an exit or tangential entrance wound. A doctor admitted that it was possible there was only one wound." or " "There were two wounds. Whether they were directly related I do not know. It was an entrance wound in the neck." or "Dr. Clark replied. "The head wound could have been either an exit or a tangential entrance wound."

Perry repeated these statements in an ABC interview that evening, that the neck wound was a "small penetrating wound that appeared to be the entrance wound." and that the head wound was a quite large one that could have been either an exit wound or a tangential wound of the skull."

The so-called manipulation of the press requires inserting a sentence that contradicts the autopsy report and leaving in five sentences that contradict the autopsy report.

Who’s running this Conspiracy – Moe, Larry, and Curly?

[Fiver]

Two, substitution; the Minox camera fraud .

The police inventory lists:
1 Stereo Realist Camera and Case
1 Small German camera and black case on chain and film
1 Russian .35 mm camera and brown case

If Oswald was a patsy, then there couldn’t have been anything incriminating on the film of any of the cameras.

If there was something incriminating on the missing camera then:
* Oswald must have been part of the Conspiracy.
* Oswald was an inept member of the Conspiracy for taking incriminating photos.
* Oswald was even more inept for not concealing incriminating evidence.
* The Conspirator sent to collect the rifle was inept for not removing the incriminating evidence.
* The Conspirator who took the camera was inept. The barely competent thing to do would be to take the film and leave the camera. The smart thing to do would be to replace the film with a new roll. Even taking the film out, exposing it, and putting it back would be less dumb than taking the camera.

That’s before we get into how would the Conspiracy know which of the three cameras to take.

Who’s running this Conspiracy – Moe, Larry, and Curly?

[Patrick Differ]

Would recommend reading US News interview of Specter 1966. He makes the admission that the WC based conclusions on probabilities. It is shocking that the guy who came up with the single bullet theory and was a key member of the WC staff seemed to not know what the FBI and WC actually saw in terms of evidence? In 1966 no less.
one conclusion you can make is that the WC was clearly limited by time as were the Parkland Doctors. Specters words.
A President is assassinated and you come up with the excuse you don't want to start WW3 ? Didn't JFK snuff that idea during the Cuban Missile Crisis?
Oh we had enough time !! Yet here we are today waiting to review 80000 Assassination documents witheld for over 60 years?
Sure I'm going to trust Specter and the WC where every member hated JFKs guts.. Not a chance, its not done yet.

[scottnapa]

THE MIINOX CAMERA part 3
Several weeks after the assassination, the FBI also contacted Dallas Police property manager H. W. Hill, who complied with their request and made the notation on the property invoice. It is that altered copy that appears in the Warren Commission exhibits.
On January 30, 1964, J. Edgar Hoover sent a memorandum to the Dallas SAC ordering an investigation into the matter of the missing Minox. It was the official position of the bureau that no Minox was recovered from the Paine house.
Yet, there is developed Minox film. undeveloped film, a leather case and chain. The light-meter is a particularly foolish substitution by the FBI. This spy camera designed with the purpose of taking pictures of documents, contents of safe, etc. A Minox light meter is developed for low light use. No flash. this easily clandestine camera.
The picture developed from the Minox camera of Oswald, the standing Marine posing with his rifle in Atsugi Japan easily dismissed this WC & FBI contention that the camera belongs to Micheal Paine. No attempt is made to explain why Mr Paine was taking pictures of LH Oswald in a foreign county in 1959. Hint: Paine wasn't. The Minox camera was owned and used by Oswald. The FBI Minox camera & Minox light meter swticheroo is illustrative of how the Hoover pursues desired outcomes. The HSCA was NOT under the thumb of Hoover, and did a superior job of exposing this lie.

[Fiver]

3) Destruction; where are Sandra O’Conner’s color autopsy photos?:

Do you perhaps mean Saundra Spencer? Her description of the head wound contradicts the descriptions her boss, Robert Knudsen, as well as the descriptions of the Bethesda autopsy doctors and the Parkland doctors.

As to what happened to them, there are plenty of possibilities that don't require an inept Conspiracy. Perhaps they were given to the Kennedy family. Perhaps they weren't released because a color image was considered more shocking than black and white. Perhaps they were just left in a file folder and forgotten.

[Fiver]

FBI also presents a photocopy as an original evidence. The Oswald money order only exists as a photograph copy .

The actual money order was used as evidence, not a photocopy of it. Phtotos were taken of the money order so it could be included in the printed report.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cole, I now hand you an item consisting of a U.S. postal money order in the amount of $21.45, payable to Klein's Sporting Goods, from "A. Hidell, P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Texas." For the record I will state that this money order was included with the purchase order in Exhibit 773 which has just been identified, and was intended and used as payment for the weapon shipped in response to the purchase order, 773. I ask you, Mr. Cole, whether you have examined this money order for the purpose of determining whether it was prepared by the author of the standards?
Mr. COLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. What was your conclusion, Mr. Cole?
Mr. COLE. It is my conclusion that the handwriting on this money order is in the hand of the person who executed the standard writing.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have this money order admitted as 788?
Representative FORD. It may be admitted.
(The document was marked as Commission Exhibit No. 788, and was received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Have you prepared a photograph of that Exhibit 788, the money order?
Mr. COLE. Yes; I have.
Mr. EISENBERG. And you have produced that photograph for me just now, Mr. Cole?
Mr. COLE. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was this prepared by you or under your supervision?
Mr. COLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is it an accurate photograph of 788?
Mr. COLE. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. May this be admitted as 789, Mr. Chairman?
Representative FORD. It may be admitted.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cadigan, I now hand you Commission Exhibit No. 788, and ask you if you have examined that exhibit?
Mr. CADIGAN. Yes; I have.
Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, that is the money order which was included with the purchase order to Klein's. Have you prepared a photograph of that exhibit, Mr. Cadigan?
Mr. CADIGAN. I have.
Mr. EISENBERG. That will be Cadigan Exhibit No. 11.
(The document referred to was marked Cadigan Exhibit No. 11.)
Mr. EISENBERG. And this was taken by you or under your supervision?
Mr. CADIGAN. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And is it an accurate photograph of the money order, Exhibit No. 788?
Mr. CADIGAN. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you compare Exhibit No. 788 with the standards to determine whether Exhibit No. 788 had been written by Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. CADIGAN. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. What was your conclusion?
Mr. CADIGAN. That the postal money order, Cadigan Exhibit No. 11, had been prepared by Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. The postal money order is Commission Exhibit No. 788 and your picture is Cadigan Exhibit No. 11, is that correct?
Mr. CADIGAN. That is correct.

Mr. KLEIN - At this time would you please be seated, Mr McNally. I would now direct your attention to exhibit JFK F-504, which is a microfilm reproduction of an order form to Klein's Sporting Goods Co. for a rifle, plus the envelope in which the order form was sent; and JFK F-509, which is a money order made out to Klein's Sporting Goods Co., both of which documents have the name Hidell on them.
Mr. MCNALLY - I have both of them.
Mr. KLEIN - JFK F-504 and F-509; do you recognize those documents?
Mr. MCNALLY - I do.
Mr. KLEIN - Did the entire panel have an opportunity to examine those documents?
Mr. MCNALLY - They did.
Mr. KLEIN - Did the panel reach a conclusion with respect to those documents?
Mr. MCNALLY - They did.
Mr. KLEIN - What was that conclusion?
Mr. MCNALLY - That JFK exhibit F-504 and F-509 were written by the same person, again with the caveat. JFK exhibit F-504 is a photo reproduction of a microfilm.
Mr. KLEIN - The document, which is marked F-509, the money order, is an original document; is it not?
Mr. MCNALLY - It was; yes.
Mr. KLEIN - And your conclusion is they were written by the same person who wrote the other documents?
Mr. MCNALLY - That is right.