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  • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

    There was a witness I think who said he saw Oswald firing his rifle at a shooting range in October. He too identified the gun as a Mauser. So either he made the same mistake as the initial police, or Oswald had two very similar rifles.



    This from the Warren Commission report, so entirely untrustworthy of course;

    "Only if disassembled could the rifle fit into the paper bag found near the window from which the shots were fired. A firearms expert with the FBI assembled the rifle in 6 minutes using a 10-cent coin as a tool, and he could disassemble it more rapidly. While the rifle may have already been disassembled when Oswald arrived home on Thursday, he had ample time that evening to disassemble the rifle and insert it into the paper bag."

    And;

    "Oswald's palmprint on the underside of the barrel demonstrates that he handled the rifle when it was disassembled. A palmprint could not be placed on this portion of the rifle, when assembled, because the wooden foregrip covers the barrel at this point."
    Thanks Joshua.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

      And in a 1967 interview Weitzman said that the 6.5 mil Mannlicher Carcano was:

      the rifle we found. It was strictly a mistaken identity which anyone could make. If you know anything about guns, a Mauser is a Mauser. What make it is, what country it was made in, can easily be misidentified because mostly your Mauser mechanism looks very similar.”

      He went on to say that the Carcano was:

      a Mauser-action rifle.” And “an Italian Mauser

      So that should clear that point up but as Bugliosi says - in the world of conspiracy theorists there are no mistakes, only sinister implications.
      In 1963 Weitzman and another officer said that "Mauser 7.62" was stamped on the barrel. If you sign a statutory declaration you should be certain of the contents.

      "If you know anything about guns, a Mauser is a Mauser​". This, and what follows it in the above quote, is nonsense. If you know anything about guns you know that Mauser designed a bolt mechanism that proved to be the strongest and safest in the world, and incorporated that design in their high quality rifles with the brand name of Mauser. The action was copied by the likes of Salvatore Carcano for what was considered to be the most inferior rifle ever made. I wonder as to the extent of firearms knowledge of the posters on this thread.

      Recently released memos by Johnson and Hoover show that they were anxious that the public did not pursue the idea that the assassination was hatched in a foreign land such as Russia or Cuba. Hence the brief provided to the Warren Commission was to strictly steer the investigation towards the lone gunman theory. But the Zapruder film complicated their task and lead to the highly innovative, but spurious, magic bullet theory. A bullet fired from an elevated position enters JFK's back 6" below the collar line and emerges from his neck. But the apologists always have a crazy answer...Kennedy was leaning forward, presumably inspecting his shoes? It then does a hard right turn and hits Connolly in the back next to his RIGHT arm pit and emerges below his RIGHT nipple having demolished his rib. Haha say the apologists, the seat was moved to the left. Connolly was well over 6' with broad shoulders and the bullet was proceeding right to left in relation to the vehicle. There wasn't room to move a seat that far. Maybe if he had been hit near his LEFT armpit, but he wasn't. The bullet then smashed his wrist bone, purportedly without affecting his grip on his Stetson, and lodged in his thigh from which it subsequently dislodged itself, in pristine condition and only 3 grains lighter than its original weight of 161 grains. The WC conducted tests by firing bullets through goats and cadavers and all the projectiles were severely deformed. No one in the presidential car believed the magic bullet story, especially Connolly, and neither did LBJ, and the ZP showed this theory to be complete fantasy. But the WC had to come up with some explanation. To paraphrase Bugliosi, in the world of apologists there are no suspicious circumstances, only apocryphal explanations.
      Last edited by GBinOz; 02-08-2023, 01:10 AM.
      They are not long, the days of wine and roses:
      Out of a misty dream
      Our path emerges for a while, then closes
      Within a dream.
      Ernest Dowson - Vitae Summa Brevis​

      ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

        But this was supposedly a plot Fishy. Plots are planned in advance and then covered up by the authorities. So I’ll ask again…..how could those plotters have allowed a second rifle to have been displayed in public before claiming that an entirely different one was used. The idea is preposterous. Surely you can see how impossible that is to believe? The rifle was simply misidentified early on. Conspiracy theorists have done what conspiracy theorists do…..latch onto a minor error and magnify it.
        You didnt understand my point , Yes the plot was to kill kennedy, which they did , the coverup was a completly different thing all together .

        As has been suggested Apoligist Theorists rarley know or can tell the difference . Your question regarding the reason for ''displaying a second rifle when a different one was used'' shows this to be the case .

        One more time . For 36 hours the kill weapon was German made Mauser bolt action Rifle, as confimed by the FBI thats just a fact herlock no if buts and or maybe ,

        When they realized they couldnt tie it to Oswald with prints or ownership it suddenly became an Italian Carcarno Rifle .

        The evidential pitcure of Oswald holding the Carcano can be easily seen the difference of the Mauser Rifle on display in the Dallas police hallway pic, and the one where the FBI removes the Mauser from the TSBD building .

        Two different rifles means Conspiracy .

        'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

          This is the same Weitzman that categorically confirmed that the rifle found on the sixth floor was the Mannlicher Carcano. The Mauser issue was the result of an earlier misidentification by someone who never handled the gun, just saw it from a few feet away.

          So if your original point is correct then we have plotter leaving casing and shells at opposite ends of the 6th floor. More brilliant planning. Who were these geniuses?

          Im afaide that is just nonsense, look at the original testimony Herlock . Read his sword affidavit at the time .
          'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

            You didnt understand my point , Yes the plot was to kill kennedy, which they did , the coverup was a completly different thing all together .

            As has been suggested Apoligist Theorists rarley know or can tell the difference . Your question regarding the reason for ''displaying a second rifle when a different one was used'' shows this to be the case .

            One more time . For 36 hours the kill weapon was German made Mauser bolt action Rifle, as confimed by the FBI thats just a fact herlock no if buts and or maybe ,

            When they realized they couldnt tie it to Oswald with prints or ownership it suddenly became an Italian Carcarno Rifle .

            The evidential pitcure of Oswald holding the Carcano can be easily seen the difference of the Mauser Rifle on display in the Dallas police hallway pic, and the one where the FBI removes the Mauser from the TSBD building .

            Two different rifles means Conspiracy .
            Are you saying that Oswald did not have a Mauser rifle?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

              Watching one documentary or reading one book doesn’t constitute ‘research’ Fishy. It’s by an author with a theory. I’m not saying that he’s dishonest but there has to be a possibility of bias when assessing evidence. Why is this guy trustworthy and yet a man who spent 20 years researching and writing a 1000 book on the subject isnt. Of course people will say that he was just a ‘Warren Commission apologist’ but he was a highly respected prosecutor but I find it difficult to believe that he’d choose to spend 20 of his life just to falsely defend a lie.
              Again,why dont you do some research on the guy before you comment, Gary Fannin spent an enormous amout of his life studing the case , read over 300 books was a personal friend of J.W Fritz, the dallas police chief who escorted LHO when he was shot by ruby , for god sake who do you want me get my information from if not someone like him ? Watch the doco herlock it will blow you away . Pardon the pun .
              'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                Are you saying that Oswald did not have a Mauser rifle?
                Im saying the Italian Carcano Rifle is what the Warren commission said Oswald used to kill Kennedy, the Rifle that was found in the TSBD was a Mauser German made bolt action Rifle.
                'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

                  In 1963 Weitzman and another officer said that "Mauser 7.62" was stamped on the barrel. If you sign a statutory declaration you should be certain of the contents.

                  "If you know anything about guns, a Mauser is a Mauser​". This, and what follows it in the above quote, is nonsense. If you know anything about guns you know that Mauser designed a bolt mechanism that proved to be the strongest and safest in the world, and incorporated that design in their high quality rifles with the brand name of Mauser. The action was copied by the likes of Salvatore Carcano for what was considered to be the most inferior rifle ever made. I wonder as to the extent of firearms knowledge of the posters on this thread.

                  Recently released memos by Johnson and Hoover show that they were anxious that the public did not pursue the idea that the assassination was hatched in a foreign land such as Russia or Cuba. Hence the brief provided to the Warren Commission was to strictly steer the investigation towards the lone gunman theory. But the Zapruder film complicated their task and lead to the highly innovative, but spurious, magic bullet theory. A bullet fired from an elevated position enters JFK's back 6" below the collar line and emerges from his neck. But the apologists always have a crazy answer...Kennedy was leaning forward, presumably inspecting his shoes? It then does a hard right turn and hits Connolly in the back next to his RIGHT arm pit and emerges below his RIGHT nipple having demolished his rib. Haha say the apologists, the seat was moved to the left. Connolly was well over 6' with broad shoulders and the bullet was proceeding right to left in relation to the vehicle. There wasn't room to move a seat that far. Maybe if he had been hit near his LEFT armpit, but he wasn't. The bullet then smashed his wrist bone, purportedly without affecting his grip on his Stetson, and lodged in his thigh from which it subsequently dislodged itself, in pristine condition and only 3 grains lighter than its original weight of 161 grains. The WC conducted tests by firing bullets through goats and cadavers and all the projectiles were severely deformed. No one in the presidential car believed the magic bullet story, especially Connolly, and neither did LBJ, and the ZP showed this theory to be complete fantasy. But the WC had to come up with some explanation. To paraphrase Bugliosi, in the world of apologists there are no suspicious circumstances, only apocryphal explanations.
                  So we have conspirators who were so smart that they allowed a completely different gun to Oswald’s to be shown to the watching world? And these same conspirators didn’t realise that after the assassination an investigation would take place and not only an official investigation but any number of amateurs would be scrutinising the results. Either that or they just weren’t bothered about bullets that couldn’t have achieved all of the documented injuries or one’s that looked like they hadn’t been shot through two people?

                  The problem with proposing a conspiracy is that you have to accept that the conspirators were monumental cretins.

                  And there’s no need to wonder about my firearms knowledge George. It’s zero.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

                    Again,why dont you do some research on the guy before you comment, Gary Fannin spent an enormous amout of his life studing the case , read over 300 books was a personal friend of J.W Fritz, the dallas police chief who escorted LHO when he was shot by ruby , for god sake who do you want me get my information from if not someone like him ? Watch the doco herlock it will blow you away . Pardon the pun .
                    Because I’m no longer interested in listening to conspiracy theorists on this or any other topic Fishy. I know who killed Kennedy. The entire topic should be at an end.
                    Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 02-08-2023, 09:00 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

                      You didnt understand my point , Yes the plot was to kill kennedy, which they did , the coverup was a completly different thing all together .

                      As has been suggested Apoligist Theorists rarley know or can tell the difference . Your question regarding the reason for ''displaying a second rifle when a different one was used'' shows this to be the case .

                      One more time . For 36 hours the kill weapon was German made Mauser bolt action Rifle, as confimed by the FBI thats just a fact herlock no if buts and or maybe ,

                      When they realized they couldnt tie it to Oswald with prints or ownership it suddenly became an Italian Carcarno Rifle .

                      The evidential pitcure of Oswald holding the Carcano can be easily seen the difference of the Mauser Rifle on display in the Dallas police hallway pic, and the one where the FBI removes the Mauser from the TSBD building .

                      Two different rifles means Conspiracy .
                      Really? So your saying that there was a conspiracy entirely unconnected to the cover-up? Clearly anyone planning such a massive conspiratorial undertaking would have had to have planned for what happened after (the cover-up) but these amateurs must have forgotten.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

                        Im saying the Italian Carcano Rifle is what the Warren commission said Oswald used to kill Kennedy, the Rifle that was found in the TSBD was a Mauser German made bolt action Rifle.
                        Initially misidentified as being a German-made Mauser rifle, the Dallas police, upon examination in their lab, determined it to be an Italian-made Carcano. The Warren Commission concluded that the initial identification of the rifle as a Mauser was in error.[39] The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated claims from researchers that the rifle in fact was a Mauser. The Committee compared photos taken by the Dallas police of the rifle in place, a news film of the rifle being recovered, news photos of the rifle being carried from the Depository, numerous news photos and films of the rifle being carried through the halls of the Dallas police headquarters, as well as photos later taken by the FBI and the Dallas police, and compared them to the Carcano rifle held at the National Archives. They concluded the rifle depicted in the photos and films was the same rifle held in the Archives and therefore was the Carcano and not a Mauser.[40]
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

                          Hi Herlock,

                          From your comment and some of the incorrect data that you have posted, but without wishing to cause any offence, might I suggest that your knowledge on the subject may be dated? I have discovered an update on my knowledge having watched this:

                          The assassination of President John F. Kennedy remains the greatest American murder mystery, decades after the official report declared Lee Harvey Oswald as ...


                          I am tempted to break my resolution never to buy any more books on the subject and order Josiah Thompson's book "Last Second in Dallas" which appears to be based on evidence and scientific analysis rather than conjecture and misinformation. It appears to resolve the HOW, but not the WHY, as the author admits. I would recommend the above YouTube video to all.

                          Cheers, George
                          Watching your video link doco George, Fantastic , esp the part at the 12 00 min point where it is clearly shown that the 3 spent cartridges were found on the S E corner and the German mauser rifle was found in the S W corner exactly where the Rowlands said they saw a man with a rifle .

                          Question, why fire 3 shots from one corner, leave the shell casing there then stash the Rifle all the over in the other corner ? Answer you just dont .
                          'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                            Because I’m no longer interested in listening to conspiracy theorists on this or any other topic Fishy. I know who killed Kennedy. The entire topic should be at an end.
                            Yer i thought that one would get you , pretty impressive and huh
                            'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DJA View Post

                              Initially misidentified as being a German-made Mauser rifle, the Dallas police, upon examination in their lab, determined it to be an Italian-made Carcano. The Warren Commission concluded that the initial identification of the rifle as a Mauser was in error.[39] The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated claims from researchers that the rifle in fact was a Mauser. The Committee compared photos taken by the Dallas police of the rifle in place, a news film of the rifle being recovered, news photos of the rifle being carried from the Depository, numerous news photos and films of the rifle being carried through the halls of the Dallas police headquarters, as well as photos later taken by the FBI and the Dallas police, and compared them to the Carcano rifle held at the National Archives. They concluded the rifle depicted in the photos and films was the same rifle held in the Archives and therefore was the Carcano and not a Mauser.[40]
                              Heres the problem with all that dave , its easy to say that after such a long perion of time after the assassination, but focus on the day and the footage. Look at the rifle being removed from the tsbd and look at oswalds cancarno, the one they said he fired to kill kennedy , the one he ordered via mail order , the one with the serial number , and p.o box address receipt .? what do you see ?
                              'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DJA View Post

                                Initially misidentified as being a German-made Mauser rifle, the Dallas police, upon examination in their lab, determined it to be an Italian-made Carcano. The Warren Commission concluded that the initial identification of the rifle as a Mauser was in error.[39] The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated claims from researchers that the rifle in fact was a Mauser. The Committee compared photos taken by the Dallas police of the rifle in place, a news film of the rifle being recovered, news photos of the rifle being carried from the Depository, numerous news photos and films of the rifle being carried through the halls of the Dallas police headquarters, as well as photos later taken by the FBI and the Dallas police, and compared them to the Carcano rifle held at the National Archives. They concluded the rifle depicted in the photos and films was the same rifle held in the Archives and therefore was the Carcano and not a Mauser.[40]
                                In 1963 Weitzman and another officer said that "Mauser 7.62" was stamped on the barrel. If you sign a statutory declaration you should be certain of the contents.

                                Enter stage left the Warren Commission . We all know what happenned after that .
                                'It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are . If it doesn't agree with experiment, its wrong'' . Richard Feynman

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