Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

[AmericanSherlock]

Daily Reminder: Antony who Rod went out of his way to meet in real life and try to convince of his insipid theory was NOT convinced. In his new book, he will espouse one of the theories as what he believes most likely happened and it will NOT be Rod's suggested theory. Oops.

Amount of homo sapiens Rod has convinced to date of "The Correct Solution": 0

Let me guess, that is Ad Populum Fallacy?

[RodCrosby]

Tell us again the tale of the obviously but unfortunately inaccessible ash-bin that was nvertheless the perfect hiding-place....

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=442986&postcount=2159

Or how the copper told Wallace to go home when in fact he told him to keep looking...

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=441914&postcount=1935

Or how when everyone knows - Police, Prosecution, Judge and Jury - that Wallace got the 14 tram from the junction of Breck Rd and Belmont Rd, somehow he got on an imaginary tram IN/ON/UP Belmont Rd that never went anywhere near the Chess Club [Beattie, McCartney and Caird obviously met an apparition...]

If you throw as much of this sh1t as possible, something might just stick, in the minds of cretins - must be your plan...


NOT while I'm around, unhappily for you...

crash and burn... crash and burn...

[Herlock Sholmes]

We’re back in the realms of the pathetic

At around 11.30pm I mistakenly typed Street instead of road.

a) I’m not in court under oath.

b) I’m not a court stenographer.

c) grow up.

d) try answering a question using reason now and then

[RodCrosby]

Personally I’d like to see the actual, physical proof that Wallace couldn’t have gotten to the chess club by walking into Belmont Street.

Why did no one at the trial, a police officer for example, point out that you couldn’t get a tram from Belmont Street? They would have caught Wallace in a lie...in court!

Perhaps because you meant Belmont Road.... [not quick enough to spot all your errors, eh? Tut-tut...]

Or was that a misprint, or irrelevant elision?

Surely you weren't lying? I now have 'proof' you are a brutal murderer!

Yawn.... Are there really no smarter fish in this barrel for me to shoot?



How disappointing...

[Herlock Sholmes]

This is a good find from you. Of course there are always excuses and explanations from the peanut gallery. This is a guy who wrote a long post criticizing Parrys statement about his whereabouts saying he proved it was a lie using "linguistic techniques" because he felt Parry was "too detailed". But an obvious inconsistency in Wallaces statements are "irrelevant" or "misprints"!!!

Personally I’d like to see the actual, physical proof that Wallace couldn’t have gotten to the chess club by walking into Belmont Street.

Another point is this, if you couldn’t get a tram to the chess club from Belmont Road or it’s close environs on a Monday night (but you could on other nights) is it impossible (and the answer has to be no before he even says it) that Wallace had forgotten this when he was trying to show that he didn’t go to the phone box. He just gave an alternate route.

Why did no one at the trial, a police officer for example, point out that you couldn’t get a tram from Belmont Street? They would have caught Wallace in a lie...in court!

[RodCrosby]

Not because it's inconvenient. Just irrelevant.

Wallace could not physically have caught a tram to the Chess Club IN Belmont Road.
Therefore he would not have really said that he did. No more than anyone would really say they went to the airport and caught a train.
Therefore simple logic says it's a transcription error in the TT or by Wyndham-Brown, or an elision.

Everyone including the Prosecution at the time knew what Wallace was saying, and no-one cared about a piffling elision, if that was what it was.

This rubbish all you got? [rhetorical question]

[AmericanSherlock]

I’ve just seen Rod’s post. An extract from the trial transcript is now a explained as a misprint because it’s inconvenient!!

Wallace’s own words. Strange how some are quite happy to quote statements and trial transcripts unless inconvenient! The word ‘up’ has obviously been deliberately ignored or misinterpreted by those determined to exonerate Wallace at all costs!

Wallace turned right into Breck Road, made the call, then caught the tram to the club.

GAME OVER.

This is a good find from you. Of course there are always excuses and explanations from the peanut gallery. This is a guy who wrote a long post criticizing Parrys statement about his whereabouts saying he proved it was a lie using "linguistic techniques" because he felt Parry was "too detailed". But an obvious inconsistency in Wallaces statements are "irrelevant" or "misprints"!!!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’ve just seen Rod’s post. An extract from the trial transcript is now a explained as a misprint because it’s inconvenient!!

Wallace’s own words. Strange how some are quite happy to quote statements and trial transcripts unless inconvenient! The word ‘up’ has obviously been deliberately ignored or misinterpreted by those determined to exonerate Wallace at all costs!

Wallace turned right into Breck Road, made the call, then caught the tram to the club.

GAME OVER.

[RodCrosby]

Now the Wallace-fanciers are reduced to searching for misprints, or irrelevant elisions in their hopeless, malignant attempt to slur an innocent man. Pitiful...

Mr. Justice Wright: "...when reference is made to discrepancies in his statement, I cannot help thinking it is wonderful how his statements are as lucid and consistent as they have been."

[RodCrosby]

It was only possible:-

if Wallace lied, and moreover lied specifically in a way that he didn't have to lie.
[If you're going to lie you don't lie both about the stop and the means of transport, if one lie is enough. And let's pass over the fact that Wallace had lived in the district for 15 years, and was a distinctive sight to almost every bus/tram driver and clippie, no doubt.]

The Police and Prosecution were unable to offer any evidence whatsoever that he lied.

"OLIVER KC: If he did not send that message, he was an innocent man, and how can it be said that the Prosecution have even started to prove that he sent it ?"

Murphy's book is a pile of tendentious rubbish, as I have already demonstrated in exploding his risible 'analysis' of the chess schedule...

[Herlock Sholmes]

No one in particular, just a general statement

Anyway, apparently CCJ had conducted a detailed examination of the routes available at the time and the possible timings. That isn't to say he necessarily favors that Wallace acting alone and taking a given route is what happened, just that it is certainly possible. Therefore objections against it being possible for that reason (timing, location of routes etc.) are not valid.

Such simple distinctions that a primary school boy could grasp seem lost on certain minds.

I’m looking forward to reading this book. The more you look into the case the stronger the case for Wallace appears to get.

I’m still interested in this question about Wallace’s Monday evening route though. I just can’t see why it’s assumed that Wallace caught a tram near the junction of Breck and Belmont (a stop that according to the map was in Breck and not Belmont) and yet at his trial he unequivocally says that he went ‘up’ Belmont. Which means past the junction stop and into and along Belmont. I can’t see any other interpretation?

[AmericanSherlock]

Who do you mean AS

No one in particular, just a general statement

Anyway, apparently CCJ had conducted a detailed examination of the routes available at the time and the possible timings. That isn't to say he necessarily favors that Wallace acting alone and taking a given route is what happened, just that it is certainly possible. Therefore objections against it being possible for that reason (timing, location of routes etc.) are not valid.

Such simple distinctions that a primary school boy could grasp seem lost on certain minds.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi,

I've been in contact with the thread starter CCJ/Antony. He said that he discovered not only could Wallace have made it on time if he took a quicker bus as Murphy suggested he might have, but if WHW was honest and had indeed taken a tram as stated, he still could have made it on time.

This might not please certain readers here

Who do you mean AS

[Herlock Sholmes]

As I’ve said before it’s sadly the case that if you view the thread whilst not logged in you unwarily see posts that you would prefer to ignore.

I’m perfectly prepared to admit another posters greater knowledge of the local geography and the tram system. No shame in that.

He makes a point that Wallace obviously caught the tram at the junction of Breck and Belmont. Gannon appears to agree.

Why then does Wallace, under oath at his trial and in answer to a question by Oliver reply:

“I walked up Richmond Park, turned the corner by the church and up Belmont Road and caught a tram.”

According to the map in Gannon the tram stop was actually in Breck Road near the corner of Belmont so why would Wallace specifically state that he went ‘up’ Belmont.

All I did was interpret the English language. And this indicates that Wallace passed the stop at the junction.

[AmericanSherlock]

Wallace said that, on the Monday evening, he turned left out of Richmond Park into Breck Road. Then from Breck Road he turned into Belmont Road and walked along it to the tram stop (although Gannon says that he caught the tram on the corner of Breck and Belmont.)

This raises questions.

1. Where did the trams go that picked up at the stops at the ends of Richmond Park and Newcombe Street? If they went near to the cafe why did Wallace walk past them to get to Belmont Road ? (I can only assume that the trams that picked up there had a different destination?)

2. Why did Wallace take the roundabout route into Belmont Road when he could have taken the significantly quicker route via Pendennis Street (this was the route he took when he walked home later that night with Mr Caird?) He was basically going in the opposite direction before turning back on himself. It makes no sense.

3. The obvious question. The shortest route would have been to the tram stop near to the phone box. At an estimate, 3 times shorter! This makes even less sense!

Or did he simply turn right out of Richmond Park? In which case he would coincidentally have arrived at the phone box just as the Qualtrough phone call was being made.

Seems pretty obvious to me

Hi,

I've been in contact with the thread starter CCJ/Antony. He said that he discovered not only could Wallace have made it on time if he took a quicker bus as Murphy suggested he might have, but if WHW was honest and had indeed taken a tram as stated, he still could have made it on time.

This might not please certain readers here