Do you think William Herbert Wallace was guilty?

[RodCrosby]

Because that same night Wallace returned from the Chess Club with Caird and where did their tram stop?

Near St Margaret’s Church in...you guessed it...Belmont Road!

Nope. It stopped in West Derby Road, at the junction with Belmont Road. The only trams that travelled IN Belmont Road were the North/South trams such as the number 26 which Wallace got on the Tuesday night. It was called the Outer Circular route and the buses which superseded the trams still use the route today.

You really thought you could throw some more sh1t and idiots would lap it up. Unfortunately for you, I'm here and... well you know the rest...


Dear reader. This thread no longer discusses the Wallace case, but an alternative universe case where facts and logic don't matter.

Instead of wasting time here, buy a good book about the case. Happily the best book on the case is coming very soon...

Needless to say, the Troll and the Stalker and their malignant delusions do not feature anywhere in it...

[AmericanSherlock]

As an atheist I think the rapture the likelier event of the two.

Elvis coming back to earth and admitting to the murder of JW is more likely than the "sneak thief accomplice" in my estimation

[Herlock Sholmes]

He can't reveal names yet, it's all a big secret. We'll find out his genius was vindicated in due time. Just like the people waiting on the rapture.

As an atheist I think the rapture the likelier event of the two.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It must have been

I find that my level of certainty that Wallace was guilty increases every time that I hear such desperate arguments.

It must have been a misprint.

Ash bins that only Raffles could access.

A police man saying that MGE didn’t exist when he didn’t really mean it.

A killer taking a murder weapon away with him despite that fact that it only increased his risk of being caught and leaving it would have helped him.

A cunning conspirator who creates this Moriarty-type plot that could obviously have fallen at the first hurdle.

Then that same genius, with absolutely no compulsion, goes and blabs about the crime to someone that doesn’t like him.

Then we have a phonecall made from a box 400 yards from Wallace’s home at exactly the time that Wallace would have arrived there.

We have Wallace ‘forgetting’ to mention that his Boss lived at the heart of the area in question and that he’d visited his house several time.

Then we have Wallace loitering around for 30 or 40 minutes to catch Beattie leaving the chess club so that he could get him to give a more favourable time. Something for which his explaination to the police was about as suspicious as you can get.

And that was just after he’d lied to them about being ‘cleared.’

Then there’s Wallace walking past the parlour to go upstairs to look for Julia in the only room in the house where he could be sure that she never went into.

Then we have a sneak-thief who kindly turns off the downstairs lights before he leaves. ( He might have lit a fire and put the kettle on if he was that considerate )

Then there’s Wallace suddenly becoming convinced of Parry’s guilt and yet he says nothing of the kind when he was under investigation or on trial for his life.

Then we have Julia the transvestite with Wallace’s mackintosh.

Then we have Wallace saying ‘her mackintosh’ to Mrs Johnston despite later, and to the police, he said that she’d never worn a mackintosh to his own knowledge. (Note:not her mackintosh but ‘a’ mackintosh. Meaning....she didn’t own one!) So that’s a lie at the crime scene!

Then we have a sneak-thief who is satisfied with a half share of £4. He doesn’t even look in Julia’s purse, or anywhere else for that matter.


The accumulation of ‘unbelievables’ become quite staggering when you list them (and I’m sure that I’ve missed some)

In addition:

Parry finds the world’s most gullible accomplice who’s willing to take all the risks while he stays safely away from the scene.

For some inexplicable reason Parry’s co-conspirator takes away a bloody glove as a souvenir.

Even Wallace himself mentions the killer using the mackintosh as a shield ( was it from experience?)

Why was Wallace ‘surprised’ when the back door ‘appeared’ bolted against him when he’d told Julia to bolt the door and that it was their usual practice?

Why didn’t Wallace find a directory or call Crewe during the day on Tuesday which would have prevented a wasted journey??

Why didn’t Parry and Mr Non-Existant carry out the crime on the Monday when Wallace was at chess?

Is it utterly impossible that PC Rothwell was correct. Answer...no.

I think it was Gannon who said that Wallace gathered the relevant paperwork to take with him on the Tuesday evening. This is logical. As a ‘professional’ isn’t it likely that he’d have carried some kind of case? Did either of the Johnston’s mention Wallace carrying anything when he returned? No.

[AmericanSherlock]

“The Correct Solution speaks for itself, and has been very warmly received by lawyers, ex-police and journalists who have long studied the case, in Liverpool and beyond...”

Any actual names yet Rod?..................didn’t think so

Like your ‘solution.’

Figments of your imagination

He can't reveal names yet, it's all a big secret. We'll find out his genius was vindicated in due time. Just like the people waiting on the rapture.

[Herlock Sholmes]

“The Correct Solution speaks for itself, and has been very warmly received by lawyers, ex-police and journalists who have long studied the case, in Liverpool and beyond...”

Any actual names yet Rod?..................didn’t think so

Like your ‘solution.’

Figments of your imagination

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oh and Rod. Don’t bother responding. We’ve heard you’re tired excuses time and time again in favour of the Sainted William and they’re sounding thinner and weaker every time.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Let's just assume it was a "1 way stop". Anything else would be "disinformation"

It must have been

I find that my level of certainty that Wallace was guilty increases every time that I hear such desperate arguments.

It must have been a misprint.

Ash bins that only Raffles could access.

A police man saying that MGE didn’t exist when he didn’t really mean it.

A killer taking a murder weapon away with him despite that fact that it only increased his risk of being caught and leaving it would have helped him.

A cunning conspirator who creates this Moriarty-type plot that could obviously have fallen at the first hurdle.

Then that same genius, with absolutely no compulsion, goes and blabs about the crime to someone that doesn’t like him.

Then we have a phonecall made from a box 400 yards from Wallace’s home at exactly the time that Wallace would have arrived there.

We have Wallace ‘forgetting’ to mention that his Boss lived at the heart of the area in question and that he’d visited his house several time.

Then we have Wallace loitering around for 30 or 40 minutes to catch Beattie leaving the chess club so that he could get him to give a more favourable time. Something for which his explaination to the police was about as suspicious as you can get.

And that was just after he’d lied to them about being ‘cleared.’

Then there’s Wallace walking past the parlour to go upstairs to look for Julia in the only room in the house where he could be sure that she never went into.

Then we have a sneak-thief who kindly turns off the downstairs lights before he leaves. ( He might have lit a fire and put the kettle on if he was that considerate )

Then there’s Wallace suddenly becoming convinced of Parry’s guilt and yet he says nothing of the kind when he was under investigation or on trial for his life.

Then we have Julia the transvestite with Wallace’s mackintosh.

Then we have Wallace saying ‘her mackintosh’ to Mrs Johnston despite later, and to the police, he said that she’d never worn a mackintosh to his own knowledge. (Note:not her mackintosh but ‘a’ mackintosh. Meaning....she didn’t own one!) So that’s a lie at the crime scene!

Then we have a sneak-thief who is satisfied with a half share of £4. He doesn’t even look in Julia’s purse, or anywhere else for that matter.


The accumulation of ‘unbelievables’ become quite staggering when you list them (and I’m sure that I’ve missed some)

[AmericanSherlock]

Just when you think that he can’t say anything dumber

I’m no expert in trams AS but I just can’t see why there was a tram that stopped in Belmont Road coming back from the direction of the chess club on Monday nights but not going the other way? Can you?

Let's just assume it was a "1 way stop". Anything else would be "disinformation"

[Herlock Sholmes]

Those "correct solution" grapes are very sour

Too tart for us mere mortals that lack "abductive reasoning"

Just when you think that he can’t say anything dumber

I’m no expert in trams AS but I just can’t see why there was a tram that stopped in Belmont Road coming back from the direction of the chess club on Monday nights but not going the other way? Can you?

[AmericanSherlock]

CONGRATULATIONS ROD

Your ‘disinformation’ post is without a shadow of a doubt the most childishly embarrassing one that I’ve ever read on this thread! Absolutely no competition.

You give Antony your ‘Incorrect Solution’ hoping to convince at least one person and he dismisses it so you try and convince us............sorry I had to take a short break as I was laughing so much....that you were giving him DISINFORMATION! Of course you were Rod. Keep telling yourself that and you might come to believe it some day.

AS, do you remember this childhood conversation.

Child one: “ Wow, those are my favourite sweets.”

Child Two: “Are they?”

Child one: “Yes they are. Can I have one please?”

Child two: “No.”

Child one: “ I didn’t want one of your horrible, smelly sweets anyway!”

Can you guess who is ‘child one?”

WAY PAST A JOKE!

Those "correct solution" grapes are very sour

Too tart for us mere mortals that lack "abductive reasoning"

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just to be certain, I’d still like to see the proof that Wallace couldn’t have caught a tram in Belmont Road on that Monday evening.

Or was it simply, as I’ve already said, perhaps Wallace simply forgot this when he gave himself an alibi to hide the fact that he went to the phone box.

Did Liverpool have one-way trams in those days Rod?

Because that same night Wallace returned from the Chess Club with Caird and where did their tram stop?

Near St Margaret’s Church in...you guessed it...Belmont Road!

[Herlock Sholmes]

CONGRATULATIONS ROD

Your ‘disinformation’ post is without a shadow of a doubt the most childishly embarrassing one that I’ve ever read on this thread! Absolutely no competition.

You give Antony your ‘Incorrect Solution’ hoping to convince at least one person and he dismisses it so you try and convince us............sorry I had to take a short break as I was laughing so much....that you were giving him DISINFORMATION! Of course you were Rod. Keep telling yourself that and you might come to believe it some day.

AS, do you remember this childhood conversation.

Child one: “ Wow, those are my favourite sweets.”

Child Two: “Are they?”

Child one: “Yes they are. Can I have one please?”

Child two: “No.”

Child one: “ I didn’t want one of your horrible, smelly sweets anyway!”

Can you guess who is ‘child one?”

WAY PAST A JOKE!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Firstly, to

These Lawyers, Policemen and Journalist who agree with you’re now thoroughly discredited theory. Care to name any of them? Or have they signed The Official Secrets Act?

Or don’t they exist....

Secondly,

Those inaccessible ash-bins. Liverpool’sversion of the vaults at Fort Knox. Can you honestly expect to use a phrase like ‘behind locked gates’ and hope to get away with it?

We’re these gates permanently locked? Never unlocked? Welded shut perhaps?

In a time of which, when older people talk about it, they say “we didn’t need to lock our doors in those days.”

Wallace couldn’t possibly have found an open gate? Not a chance in the world? Utterly impossible?

Let go of the mind-numbing bias for a second.

Thirdly,

I’m really tired of this nonsense about the MG policeman. You really are making a fool of yourself on this and yet you keep coming back for more!

I originally said that the policeman had categorically (remember that word Rod? Did you remember to look it up?) told Wallace that Menlove Gardens East didn’t exist. You called me a liar and said that he said no such thing! I then posted the excerpt from his statement where he stated, in black and white, categorically stated that Menlove Gardens East didn’t exist! It can get no simpler.
He then said that he could try Menlove Avenue if he wanted to. Obviously because Wallace was playing up his desperation to find the place. Ie “ok if you don’t believe me go look in Menlove Avenue.”

WHATEVER THE POLICEMEN SAID AFTER HIS ORIGINAL RESPONSE DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE CATEGORICALLY, IN ENGLISH, TOLD WALLACE THAT MENLOVE GARDENS EAST DID NOT (I REPEAT....NOT) EXIST!

Is that as clear to you as it is to the rest of humanity. You’re desperation is way past embarrassing. Do yourself a favour and let this go

[RodCrosby]

The best way to confuse people who have no purpose other than to spread disinformation is to give them a little disinformation of our own...

The Correct Solution speaks for itself, and has been very warmly received by lawyers, ex-police and journalists who have long studied the case, in Liverpool and beyond...

Whereas, the Wallace-fanciers, having nothing but prejudice and fancy, crash and burn time and again.