Packer and Schwartz

[lynn cates]

Blackwell

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks for the kind words.

I hope I did justice to Blackwell's theory.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

insane

Hello Karsten. Thanks.

Kosminski does not seem insane in his court appearance. But, to be fair, it could have been a recurring condition.

Is there a suggestion that Kosminski was committed multiple times?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

location

Hello CD.

"To me, her clothing suggests being caught completely off guard. . ."

Precisely.

". . . as though she had been with a client."

So, where was she WITH this client? Surely not behind the gate as she died WEST of there.

Perhaps at the sack makers at the end?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

choices

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"You seem to feel that the club members had no other choice . . ."

Oops! Too many eggs in the pudding. To DO X does NOT entail a single choice.

". . . than to concoct a conspiracy . . ."

You mean two or three conspire to concoct a story?

"Why not simply cooperate with the police as much as possible and show the police you had nothing to hide?"

They DID all this. But they felt threatened. Might reread the AF tale.

"You seem to put a lot of faith in the Leman lads."

Not necessarily. But they had objections to Israel's tale--as I do.

"Were they in full possession of all the facts before they voiced their opinion?"

No, and neither was Swanson. For had he been, the case would have been solved.

"And were they convinced that Schwartz had lied which is why they didn't believe his story or was it because Schwartz arrived in the middle of something coupled with his non-understanding of English and the problems inherent with a translation?"

Actually, they wished for MORE evidence.

"And even if the Leman lads believed Schwartz to be lying, had they personally questioned him before arriving at that conclusion?"

No. But neither had Swanson.

"I would think that their opinion would be trumped by that of Swanson who had all of the facts at his disposal . . ."

Uh, no. NOT all the facts.

" . . . who either questioned Schwartz personally or who conferred with Abberline who did."

Surely the latter?

"Swanson allows for the possibility of another killer in his report. . ."

Yes. He allows for a possibility. But, surely, all do?

". . . which erases many of the problems inherent in Schwartz's story."

At the cost of twin assaults.

"I have to go with Swanson over the Leman lads."

That is your choice.

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff,

If she fought off the B.S. man or was dragged wouldn't that be reflected in the state of her clothing such as a tear or ripped off buttons? To me, her clothing suggests being caught completely off guard as though she had been with a client.

c.d.

Hi CD

As I said I've tried dragging a heavy object on velvet like material over slats and it doesn't leave much of a mark..

That said I don't know Strides prices material or her weight for that matter, so its generalised not scientific.

She was described as muddy on her left side, so i don't see why she could not have been dragged. But your correct no ripped buttons, just a fraying to the scarf and clutching those mints.

I think everyone is agreed that what ever happened to Stride it was very quick and with extreme force

Yours Jeff

[lynn cates]

difference of opinion

Hello Jon, Cris.

"There is no basis for an argument that the police (ie; Scotland Yard) did not believe Schwartz up to Oct. 19th."

Please be aware that "the police" were not a single entity.

So, one more time, Swanson believed the tale. And if he authorised the description circulation, that would make sense.

At the same time, coppers on the ground doubted the story.

No anomaly here--merely a difference of opinion. This is part of the disconnect between coppers on the ground and those collating in the office.

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Karsten. Thanks.

Kosminski does not seem insane in his court appearance. But, to be fair, it could have been a recurring condition.

Is there a suggestion that Kosminski was committed multiple times?

Cheers.
LC

COX 'from time to time he became insane'

This is consistent with Schizophrenia which is a cyclicur illness skiing in waves and periods of recovery... But schizophrenia alone would not make someone dangerous they would also require underline personality disorders

'A great hatred of women'

I think Carsten is speculating that Kozminski went in and out of a Private asylum in Surrey... Police were searching Private asylums as early as December 1888

Yours Jeff

[lynn cates]

side

Hello Jeff.

"She was described as muddy on her left side, so I don't see why she could not have been dragged."

Ever try dragging someone lying on a side (rather than on back)?

This is a good experiment for you and your partner.

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Perhaps at the sack makers at the end?

Cheers.
LC

Perhaps she was just rolled off Deimschutz cart?

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello (again)
No, and neither was Swanson. For had he been, the case would have been solved

Cheers.
LC

But don't Anderson and Swanson believe that it was...'a definitively ascertained Fact'

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff.

"She was described as muddy on her left side, so I don't see why she could not have been dragged."

Ever try dragging someone lying on a side (rather than on back)?

This is a good experiment for you and your partner.

Cheers.
LC

Lynn my partner has three collapsed vertebrae and a broken back and is facing a major operation in two weeks time...I don't think its going to go down well as a suggestion

That said some years ago we did try this, and if dragged by the left outstretched arm, she naturally twists onto her side... I didn't try dragging her by a neck scarf, to dangerous..

But if we ever meet up at conference then perhaps we should get all the info together and experiment....I've even got an idea who we could ask to be Liz Stride..lol

Yours Jeff

[curious4]

Lynn my partner has three collapsed vertebrae and a broken back and is facing a major operation in two weeks time...I don't think its going to go down well as a suggestion

That said some years ago we did try this, and if dragged by the left outstretched arm, she naturally twists onto her side... I didn't try dragging her by a neck scarf, to dangerous..

But if we ever meet up at conference then perhaps we should get all the info together and experiment....I've even got an idea who we could ask to be Liz Stride..lol

Yours Jeff

Hello Jeff

Hope your partner's surgery goes well. Have had back surgery myself so I know what it's like.

Best wishes
C4

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff

Hope your partner's surgery goes well. Have had back surgery myself so I know what it's like.

Best wishes
C4

Yes, a permanently trapped Sciatic nerve, means she's in constant pain, so any surgery can't be as bad as the endless nights sleep and morphine patches..

I will pass on your regards and keep my fingers cross that Mr Guy can finally sort her out and get back to normal life

Thank you Jeff

[S.Brett]

Hello Jeff.

"She was described as muddy on her left side, so I don't see why she could not have been dragged."

Ever try dragging someone lying on a side (rather than on back)?

This is a good experiment for you and your partner.

Cheers.
LC

By the way...

Hello Lynn, Hello Jeff,

Four years ago we took some interesting pictures. The players are very good friends of us. It is a "Hanbury Street" scene and they represented Chapman and the "foreigner". My partner took the photos and I did what I prefer to do: Giving instruction!

A brief glance at the man, would you recognize him days later?

What is his age? At that time the guesses were between 25-40 (and over) years of age.

Ok, it is not the Dutfields Yard but perhaps you will find it helpful.

Karsten.