An even closer look at Black Bag Man

[Herlock Sholmes]

Probably this, that and the other? Why not just quote the women?

Of course that’s what you want because it limits the circumstances which helps fuel your thinking. When people give statements they don’t usually bother to describe the exact circumstances as this woman clearly didn’t. But we know that there was singing…we know that there was a downstairs room too…we know that she wasn’t the only person working at the club….we know that the incident occurred out on the street. And yet you want the circumstance to appear as if this woman was alone in a funeral parlour.

[Herlock Sholmes]

These people do ...

Eagle: If 15 minutes elapsed from the first man's departure and the Ripper's arrival, at what time do you suppose I tried the front door of the club? There was no woman in the gateway when I arrived back.

Mortimer: I didn't see any of this. When do you suppose I was at my doorstep?

Goldstein: I didn't see any of this either. When do you suppose I was walking though Berner St?

Brown: I'm almost certain I saw the deceased on my way home from the chandler's shop. Where do you suppose Stride was then, if not at the board school corner?

Diemschitz: I got home right on one o'clock. I didn't see any man leaving the yard, so I presume you suppose the Ripper had already left by then?

Kozebrodski: When I went into the yard with Mr Diemschitz, I saw the dead woman by candlelight. Her blood had already flowed down to the side door of the club. I think the murderer must have left a few minutes before Mr Diemschitz arrived back from the market. Do you agree?

After Pipeman left how long would we require as a minimum for BS man to have left and another man to arrive, kill Stride and leave? A minute, two?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Of course that’s what you want because it limits the circumstances which helps fuel your thinking.

You're right - I use the evidence as both a basis for and a constraint on my theories. This is as it should be but is in contrast to those who see the evidence as obstacles to be 'worked around'.

When people give statements they don’t usually bother to describe the exact circumstances as this woman clearly didn’t. But we know that there was singing…we know that there was a downstairs room too…we know that she wasn’t the only person working at the club….we know that the incident occurred out on the street. And yet you want the circumstance to appear as if this woman was alone in a funeral parlour.

I don't want the evidence to 'appear' anything - I want it to speak for itself and not be spun to keep it compatible with truth preferences.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

After Pipeman left how long would we require as a minimum for BS man to have left and another man to arrive, kill Stride and leave? A minute, two?

As you're already 3 minutes short without another man arriving, that extra minute or two minimum is a problem on top of a problem.

I'll leave it to you and c.d. to discuss the maximum.

[Tom_Wescott]

Times: I went in about 12 o'clock and heard nothing more until I heard "Murder" being called in the street. It had then just gone 1 o'clock.

Morning Advertiser: I went in doors about midnight. I did not hear anything till I heard murder being called in the street just after one o’clock on the Sunday morning.

Insightful that no one bothered to check the press reports, or if they did, refrained from posting.

What might the women in the kitchen - behind that partially open door - have heard had there been an incident at the gateway, if Marshall could hear murder being called in the streets, while inside and block away?

We don't know when Marshall heard or who he heard it from. A crowd gathered rather quickly and word would have spread. The only ones who didn't hear about it right away were the constables on patrol in the area. Smith heard not a thing and only figured out something was wrong when he returned on his beat to find two constables and Spooner there. Blackwell's assistant had already been summoned and arrived right after Smith. Yet Marshall at #64 heard it. Weird. But that's why the Ripper selected Berner Street and Mitre Square. They were outside the hot zones. Same reason he moved into Bethnal Green after Tabram. After the double event the police figured this out and had areas like Castle Alley more carefully watched.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott