Is He In The Mix?

[Abby Normal]

YESSSS!!! I have always believed that Tabram was an early Ripper victim. While her injuries did not completely match the others, I believe that through trial and error, this was a fledgling killer's first attempts at transformation. Everything else matches: her age, her occupation, her body position, found on a Monday right after a bank holiday, and all within a few streets of where virtually every victim had some association with: Flower & Dean Street! This street keeps popping up in nearly everything I read, and it wasn't until I visited the murder locations last August, did I realize just how close they really are. If geo-profiling is a thing (and I think it is), I believe we will find that Jack The Ripper was a local man, known to many in the district, perhaps even known to the victims in an informal way; to say hello to, pass on the street and nod, etc.

As for Hutchinson, I believe his sole motivation for hanging around 13 Miller's Court was to waylay Astrakhan Man as soon as he left. Why someone would dress so openly affluent in that neighborhood is beyond my understanding.

noooo. aman was made up by hutch!!! he never existed. ahh **** it i give up

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

noooo. aman was made up by hutch!!! he never existed. ahh **** it i give up

That is certainly possible. But enough time has passed that we will likely never know.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Rookie, a few points about Tabram. It wasn't a blitz-style frontal attack with a penknife. She was rendered unconscious as were the later victims and laid down on the ground. She was virtually nude, based on the description of her clothing. I don't believe the dagger-like blade was used only once. Dr. Killeen edited himself at the inquest and, sadly, his notes don't exist. But a quantity of blood between her legs was described but not explained, so I suspect the longer blade was used in much the same style as the 'blunt instrument' was used on Emma Smith. Also, two weapons might indicate two killers.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

...

As for Hutchinson, I believe his sole motivation for hanging around 13 Miller's Court was to waylay Astrakhan Man as soon as he left. Why someone would dress so openly affluent in that neighborhood is beyond my understanding.

I hi-lite your conclusion because I suspect it is telling more than you intended.
Criminals tend to leave their own kind alone, if Astrachan lived around Dorset St., he may well have been a crook himself.

Joseph Isaacs was a Jew, a poser, he often dressed above his station in life. Isaacs was a confidence trickster, a thief, and had been in jails across the country from Dover to Glasgow. He would wear a solid gold watch chain, an Astrachan coat, was once arrested for posing as a Detective.
Isaacs lived in Paternoster Court, off Dorset St.

[Indian Harry]

Well, the man who killed Tabram was someone who almost certainly lived within a half-mile radius of the kill site.

What is the basis for this assumption? Are you supposing that if the killer lived any further than half a mile away he wouldn't be able to get home safely without being spotted with blood on his clothing.

[The Rookie Detective]

What is the basis for this assumption? Are you supposing that if the killer lived any further than half a mile away he wouldn't be able to get home safely without being spotted with blood on his clothing.

This is on the basis that Tabram was his first kill; or at the very least the first woman he murdered and displayed in public.

He may have murdered women previously, and if s, it then becomes less likely that he lived within half a mile radius of where Tabram was found.

However, if Tabram was his first murder victim, then he almost certainly would have iived within close proximity to where Tabram was slain.

If we base Tabram as his first kill, the subsequent murders of Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes then go on to form the geographical boundaries for his kill site safe zone.

I'd suggest that Kelly; if indeed she was the final victim, was then located close to his home.

In other words, he kills Tabram, and then sets boundaries of East (Nichols) North (Chapman) South (Stride) and West (Eddowes)

The murders from Tabram through to Eddowes fit within the geoprofiling template.

But Kelly is then nearer to his base, as if he came full circle.


So a home between Tabram and Kelly is statistically most likely

That is of course if we don't include any victims after Kelly.

[Indian Harry]

However, if Tabram was his first murder victim, then he almost certainly would have iived within close proximity to where Tabram was slain.

Thanks for clarifying. I think the word 'certainly' might cause you to take on some heat from other posters, lol.... but I can appreciate your approach here.

At this point in time I think it's perfectly okay to start with assumptions and see where things take you.

Your last two posts have inspired the following thought experiment for myself.

"Suppose the Ripper had nothing to do with the Goulston Street graffiti and simply discarded the apron in a careless manner as he entered his building."

Now, using those assumptions which tenants in the building make the best suspects?

[Indian Harry]

However, if Tabram was his first murder victim, then he almost certainly would have iived within close proximity to where Tabram was slain.

Thanks for clarifying. I think the word 'certainly' might cause you to take on some heat from other posters, lol.... but I can appreciate your approach here.

At this point in time I think it's perfectly okay to start with assumptions and see where things take you.

Your last two posts have inspired the following thought experiment for myself.

"Suppose the Ripper had nothing to do with the Goulston Street graffiti and simply discarded the apron in a careless manner as he entered his building."

Now, using those assumptions which tenants in the building make the best suspects?

[Indian Harry]

A lot of books hype up the sexual nature of the murders... on the one hand I can respect this because the vast majority of serial killings do have a strong sexual motive. In these other murders, though, there is actual evidence of sexual consumation.

Since there is no evidence of sex... let's not assign a sexual motive. The motive then was simply to obtain the organs. In one of the inquests it was mentioned that an American doctor was looking for organ specimens.

Now I have never liked Tumblety as a suspect mainly because of his age.... but it's possible that one of the street hustlers did the dirty work... and because this individual could very well have been gay he had no desire whatsoever to do the deed with any of the victims. He had no qualms, though, when it came to stealing the victims' possessions.

And what about extra touches like face mutilations, all I can say is that there have been a number of gay killers that went out of their way to make strong public spectacles.... Andrew Cunanan killing Versace, Luca Magnatta mailing body parts and Luigi Mangione's 007 style killing of the CEO.

This line of thinking, I will remind you, came about by discarding the notion of a sexual motive.

[Tani]

A lot of books hype up the sexual nature of the murders... on the one hand I can respect this because the vast majority of serial killings do have a strong sexual motive. In these other murders, though, there is actual evidence of sexual consumation.

Since there is no evidence of sex... let's not assign a sexual motive. The motive then was simply to obtain the organs. In one of the inquests it was mentioned that an American doctor was looking for organ specimens.

Now I have never liked Tumblety as a suspect mainly because of his age.... but it's possible that one of the street hustlers did the dirty work... and because this individual could very well have been gay he had no desire whatsoever to do the deed with any of the victims. He had no qualms, though, when it came to stealing the victims' possessions.

And what about extra touches like face mutilations, all I can say is that there have been a number of gay killers that went out of their way to make strong public spectacles.... Andrew Cunanan killing Versace, Luca Magnatta mailing body parts and Luigi Mangione's 007 style killing of the CEO.

This line of thinking, I will remind you, came about by discarding the notion of a sexual motive.

A sexual motive is seen to be implied by these things:

- Focus on the vaginal area, taking of a womb.

- Strong assumption of a male killer choosing female victims with an outwardly sexual workform.

- Bodies left exposed in a pseudo-sexual way (skirts up, legs bent apart).

- Knives often used by killers as a penetrating item like a penis.

- Work done in a like manner to lust killers.

That said, these are all just speculations and as you point out we really cannot know. I think the main idea for many folks who try working this out is that the sex drive is one of the strongest drives (out-competing hunger, iirc) and can drive folks to do bizarre, cruel, sadistic and murderous things like the Ripper did. I'm on the fence about whether the murders were sexual, but I can see someone being turned on by what he did if that's the way one's mind works (blood fetish, cannibalism etc.) and he reaches a point of total psychopathy.

No expert though, so it will stay just musings for everyone.

[Indian Harry]

I think the main idea for many folks who try working this out is that the sex drive is one of the strongest drives (out-competing hunger, iirc) and can drive folks to do bizarre, cruel, sadistic and murderous things like the Ripper did. I'm on the fence about whether the murders were sexual...

Thanks Tani, I too am essentially on the fence where that is concerned... but if we allow considerable weight to the possibility that there is no sexual motive then Tumblety, who I generally don't like as a suspect, rises up to the top.

Furthermore if you adhere to the canonical five it provides a tidy solution to why the murders stopped when they did.

[Fernglas]

Hi RD,

Chapman wouldn't fit your criteria either, because he moved to Whitechapel shortly before the murders started, so he wouldn't know every nook and cranny and side alley, etc.

Pardon, but Klosowski fits the criteria! While he was not a resident for ten years (too excessive a time frame in my opinion, you can gain deep area knowledge faster if you are proactive), he was there for nearly two years when the murders started. It is known from friends and wifes of his that Klosowski was out rather long when he could, e.g. during holidays.
Another point is the Tabram case. Her murderer was definitely blood splattered and it was still light! No hiding in the dark at that time of the day and still no one saw the killer. Entrance Klosowski from stage left, his shop was literally just a few meters away from the murder site.

But we can agree on the fact that no "Reingeschmeckter"(difficult translation, probably "a person living there only for a short time" fits best) can be the Ripper, which strikes out guys like Tumblety, Deeming or Cream.
Also as we already discussed, the Ripper had some solid medical knowledge, otherwise Mitre Square would have been impossible for him. You simply cannot fake an organ extraction done with some skill you do not possess.

[Lewis C]

Pardon, but Klosowski fits the criteria! While he was not a resident for ten years (too excessive a time frame in my opinion, you can gain deep area knowledge faster if you are proactive), he was there for nearly two years when the murders started. It is known from friends and wifes of his that Klosowski was out rather long when he could, e.g. during holidays.
Another point is the Tabram case. Her murderer was definitely blood splattered and it was still light! No hiding in the dark at that time of the day and still no one saw the killer. Entrance Klosowski from stage left, his shop was literally just a few meters away from the murder site.

But we can agree on the fact that no "Reingeschmeckter"(difficult translation, probably "a person living there only for a short time" fits best) can be the Ripper, which strikes out guys like Tumblety, Deeming or Cream.
Also as we already discussed, the Ripper had some solid medical knowledge, otherwise Mitre Square would have been impossible for him. You simply cannot fake an organ extraction done with some skill you do not possess.

According to the source linked to below (see the English Language Skills heading), Chapman was still in Poland in February 1887, and arrived in the UK sometime between then and June 1887.

https://casebook.org/dissertations/cable-street-dandy.html

[Fernglas]

According to the source linked to below (see the English Language Skills heading), Chapman was still in Poland in February 1887, and arrived in the UK sometime between then and June 1887.

https://casebook.org/dissertations/c...eet-dandy.html

Hi again! That is still 1-1 1/2 years he lived in the Whitechapel area and more than a lot of the other suspects. It is also enough time to gain deep area knowledge if you do it actively.

[mpriestnall]

I’m against beginning yet another Cross-related thread and this one certainly isn’t one. So I hope that he won’t get a mention. So I’ll word this carefully:

Does anyone think it possible, or even likely, that the ripper was someone already mentioned in the case (apart from Cross who gets enough attention elsewhere)? By that I mean as a witness or a Doctor or a Policeman or a mortuary attendant or even someone that just gets a mention.

Possible but otherwise no.

Jack is yet to be named so I also disregard all the usual suspects.