John Richardson

[Fleetwood Mac]

There's nothing more to post. They were different women with different bodies and different ailments murdered in different circumstances and examined at different times after death.

It couldn’t be more obvious.

You make it sound so obvious, Sherlock. I suppose you're a bit short on explanation and details but who cares about that when we can just throw around grand statements.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Heart attacks. Some people die of them, some don’t.

Allergies. Some people will die when they eat nuts, others will be fine.

Smoking. Some people smoke like chimneys and never develop cancer. Others do.

Drinking. Some people get drunk after a mere glass or two, others can don't.

Eating. Some people put on weight easily, some don't.

Conception. Some women get pregnant when having unprotected sex, some don't.

This could go on forever....

Nice post.

"We just don't know" in poem form.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A point of order, Dr Brown stated:

The crime must have been committed within half an hour, or certainly within forty minutes from the time when I saw the body.

He arrived at 2.20. Catherine's body was found at 1.45.

'Seems that a PMI of 40 minutes is the reasonable interpretation. 20 minutes less than the case of Annie.

Yes, that's correct but the point I was making was that Dr Brown's understanding seems to have been that if the body is warm and no stiffening, that's a half an hour estimate. But the converse, which seems to follow, is that a cold body with stiffening commencing could occur, in Dr Brown's mind at least, after half an hour (i.e. within an hour). That's all I was saying.

If you have a problem with it, take it up with Dr Brown. It was his estimate, not mine.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Why?

Why does the environmental temperature have to be identical in order to draw a meaningful comparison? We're talking of approx. 1C difference. Can you explain this. Both temperatures would delay the onset of rigor, which is the crux of the point being made.

Why is there a Spanish word in your post?

There are a number of factors which affect the onset of rigor. You just can't say that "Both temperatures will delay the onset of rigor". That's not necessarily true at all. A cool temperature might not delay the onset of rigor at all. Not enough is known about it.

This whole argument is pointless. Dr Biggs has said that there are too many variables to accurately estimate the time of death and that Chapman could have been murdered at 5.30. I appreciate that you don't want to hear this and seem to be spending endless hours trying to find ways to wriggle around his clear statement. It doesn't matter what happened to Catherine Eddowes. She was a different person!

I wish that you’d stop using the red herring of Eddowes as a side-stepping tactic.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Why is there a Spanish word in your post?

Because you don't seem to be understanding English and I thought I'd try another language.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You make it sound so obvious, Sherlock. I suppose you're a bit short on explanation and details but who cares about that when we can just throw around grand statements.

Yeah, grand statements that are scientifically sound as opposed to fantasy, amateur and pointless comparisons between two things which are different.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Yes, that's correct but the point I was making was that Dr Brown's understanding seems to have been that if the body is warm and no stiffening, that's a half an hour estimate. But the converse, which seems to follow, is that a cold body with stiffening commencing could occur, in Dr Brown's mind at least, after half an hour (i.e. within an hour). That's all I was saying.

If you have a problem with it, take it up with Dr Brown. It was his estimate, not mine.

Dr Brown merely comments on Catherine's body in front of him.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I wish that you’d stop using the red herring of Eddowes as a side-stepping tactic.

I think you should settle the matter with one of your polls.

Catherine/Annie relevance: PMI 40 minutes versus supposed PMI 1 hour, a quite warm body with no sign of rigor versus a cold body with warmth under the intestines and rigor 'commencing of the limbs', a very similar environmental temperature, murdered and mutilated in similar circumstances.

Only then will we get 'the truth' for which you tirelessly and valiantly strive.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Because you don't seem to be understanding English and I thought I'd try another language.

I can confirm I struggle with deciphering semi-literate English.

[Parisi North Humber]

I've read through this thread (twice now) going back to Fishy's original post regarding Richardson and the open door, and I would like to ask if there is ANY consensus from the major protagonists debating on this thread as to Annie's ToD? For instance I assume there is AGREEMENT that her ToD was between the sighting of Annie as she left the kitchen after/whilst eating her potatoes and when she was discovered butchered in the back yard of Hanbury street. Are there any other broad terms of agreement that we can go forward with?

Helen x

[drstrange169]

>> The Ace If Spades<<

If Lemmie can go from the ultimate hippy band, Hawkwind to the ultimate metal band, Motorhead, there’s hope for Herlock and Fleetwood! Providing , of course, it’s Peter Green’s F.M not. Stevie Nicks’s.

[DJA]

Pink Fairies - Wikipedia

[Dickere]

I've read through this thread (twice now) going back to Fishy's original post regarding Richardson and the open door, and I would like to ask if there is ANY consensus from the major protagonists debating on this thread as to Annie's ToD? For instance I assume there is AGREEMENT that her ToD was between the sighting of Annie as she left the kitchen after/whilst eating her potatoes and when she was discovered butchered in the back yard of Hanbury street. Are there any other broad terms of agreement that we can go forward with?

Helen x

Are you a masochist ? I seem to have discovered that I am.

[Parisi North Humber]

Then I must be in good company lol.

Helen x

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think you should settle the matter with one of your polls.

Catherine/Annie relevance: PMI 40 minutes versus supposed PMI 1 hour, a quite warm body with no sign of rigor versus a cold body with warmth under the intestines and rigor 'commencing of the limbs', a very similar environmental temperature, murdered and mutilated in similar circumstances.

Only then will we get 'the truth' for which you tirelessly and valiantly strive.

I love the way you omit Annie's wasting disease and extreme malnutrition even though these are potentially crucial factors regarding both warmth and rigor.

And fyi we simply don't know the environmental temperatures of Hanbury Street and Mitre Square those nights at those times because they are not recorded. They may well not have been the same as what we find in the records for the whole of London during the entire night.