John Richardson

[Fleetwood Mac]

So no witness in any case can ever be used because witnesses ‘might’ lie or they ‘might’ be mistaken.

The justice system collapses.

Good logic.

We do have Mrs Richardson, who stated she was sure nobody entered the passage after 3am.

I'd imagine you'd apply the same standards to Mrs Richardson?

[Dickere]

I would appreciate if you allowed me to make my own calls about what position I hold. That, I find, is the only fair way of doing these things.
Again, and as always, I could make a counter bid, painting you out as getting everything wrong and me getting everything right.
But such antics are and remain kindergarten stuff and we should both avoid engaging in it.

So! Lets close the aspect, just as you agree about.

I agree there is far too much I'm right and you're wrong and an idiot here now.

I favour a later TOD as the opposite makes Richardson to be a total idiot and a liar on oath.

Phillips clearly could have been wrong. Put with the above and I'd say he was.

People who say he was right perhaps cling onto Lechmere as part of it. The two are not conjoined though.

What's to say Lech didn't have a day off that day, or was off sick, or started later and finished later, etc ? Having nearly been caught with Nicholls he may well have gone for a less public location and better daylight with Annie. I'm not saying this happened, just that the later TOD doesn't immediately rule him out and therefore isn't a reason to vehemently argue against it.

[Fleetwood Mac]

You've entirely missed the point of what Dr Biggs was saying.

As per usual, you have missed the point.

Dr Biggs tells you: a more precise estimate is less likely to be accurate. Go back and read Trevor's post. 5.20am to 5.30am is ten minutes.

GamE oVeR

[Fleetwood Mac]

Shall we just remind ourselves what Dr. Biggs said?

So, whilst not criticising Dr Phillips, or anyone else involved with the cases at the time, I would have to say that this particular victim could have died considerably more than 2 hours before discovery, but also could potentially have been killed as recently as 05.30

A timely reminder indeed. Dr Biggs doesn't commit to the more likely of the two scenarios, Professor Thiblin does. Let's say one expert for prior to 4.30am and none against.

And then of course, Dr Biggs says something like: a more precise time is less likely to be accurate. Dr Biggs wouldn't have been enamoured with Dr Phillips had he said: "5.20am to 5.30am".

And then of course, there is Catherine: warm body, no rigor mortis, supposedly a 20 minutes shorter timeframe death v examination.

The wheels have fallen off, Sherlock.

[Herlock Sholmes]

We do have Mrs Richardson, who stated she was sure nobody entered the passage after 3am.

I'd imagine you'd apply the same standards to Mrs Richardson?

She has to be assessed as all witnesses do. Her son certainly entered the passage and she didn’t hear him so what does she prove?

[Herlock Sholmes]

As per usual, you have missed the point.

Dr Biggs tells you: a more precise estimate is less likely to be accurate. Go back and read Trevor's post. 5.20am to 5.30am is ten minutes.

GamE oVeR

But no one is saying that Dr Phillips should have given a more precise estimate. Don't you understand that?

Ultimately what you are saying is nuts. Chapman was obviously murdered at one single point in time.

What you are basically saying is that if she was, in fact, murdered at 5.32am, an estimated TOD of between 2.30am and 4.30am is more likely to be accurate than an estimated TOD of 5.30, simply because it has a wider range.

That's can't possibly be right. And it isn't right.

As I've already explained to you, Dr Biggs was saying that Dr Phillips should have given a wider time range which included 5.30. It's so simple.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A timely reminder indeed. Dr Biggs doesn't commit to the more likely of the two scenarios, Professor Thiblin does. Let's say one expert for prior to 4.30am and none against.

Absolutely untrue. This exists in your imagination only.

And then of course, Dr Biggs says something like: a more precise time is less likely to be accurate. Dr Biggs wouldn't have been enamoured with Dr Phillips had he said: "5.20am to 5.30am".

Of course not. I've been saying throughout this thread that such precision is impossible even though you originally believed that a pathologist could narrow it down in this way. At least you've learnt something in this thread.

And then of course, there is Catherine: warm body, no rigor mortis, supposedly a 20 minutes shorter timeframe death v examination.

A much shorter timeframe indeed, no mention of a wasting disease, so comparisons simply aren't possible. But even if circumstances were the same, it wouldn't matter. If it was possible to extrapolate every single other TOD case from a single case, estimating time of death would be a doddle for pathologists. But studies have found that different people lose heat and stiffen over different time periods. It's not the same for everyone. That's why Dr Biggs says you just can't do it!

The wheels have fallen off, Sherlock.

Your theory didn’t have wheels in the first place.

You’ve been asked numerous times to produce this quote. You continue to ignore this simple request.

Because this quote doesn’t exist. You made it up. Go on….prove me wrong….produce it.

[Fleetwood Mac]

She has to be assessed as all witnesses do. Her son certainly entered the passage and she didn’t hear him so what does she prove?

Young John's Mother said John wasn't there. What do you think about that? Mistaken? Lying?

You should change your username to: "When It Suits".

[Fleetwood Mac]

But no one is saying that Dr Phillips should have given a more precise estimate. Don't you understand that?

Ultimately what you are saying is nuts. Chapman was obviously murdered at one single point in time.

What you are basically saying is that if she was, in fact, murdered at 5.32am, an estimated TOD of between 2.30am and 4.30am is more likely to be accurate than an estimated TOD of 5.30, simply because it has a wider range.

That's can't possibly be right. And it isn't right.

As I've already explained to you, Dr Biggs was saying that Dr Phillips should have given a wider time range which included 5.30. It's so simple.

I've no idea what you're attempting to explain.

[Fleetwood Mac]

You’ve been asked numerous times to produce this quote. You continue to ignore this simple request.

Because this quote doesn’t exist. You made it up. Go on….prove me wrong….produce it.

Which quote?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Which quote?

You claimed that Thiblin said that Annie was likely killed earlier that 5.30. Where is the quote to support this? I’ve asked at least 6 or 7 times. I’ll help you…it doesn’t exist.

[Fleetwood Mac]

You claimed that Thiblin said that Annie was likely killed earlier that 5.30. Where is the quote to support this? I’ve asked at least 6 or 7 times. I’ll help you…it doesn’t exist.

It's been posted on more than one occasion: speaks of 3-4 hours.

Have you read Fisherman's post?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Young John's Mother said John wasn't there. What do you think about that? Mistaken? Lying?

You should change your username to: "When It Suits".

Emerging from your rabbit hole we’ll review what was actually said and not what you’ve managed to create out of thin air.

“She did not sleep through the night, and should say she was awake half of the time. She awoke at 3 o’clock, and only dozed afterwards. She did not hear any noise during the night.”

So a dozing woman, through a wall, didn’t hear anyone walk through a passage. Including her son who we know was there.

Not hearing something isn’t good evidence. It’s an absence of evidence. How good was her hearing? Do you know?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I've no idea what you're attempting to explain.

Dr Biggs was saying that Dr Phillips should have given a wider time range which included 5.30.

What is it about that sentence you don't understand?

[Herlock Sholmes]

It's been posted on more than one occasion: speaks of 3-4 hours.

Have you read Fisherman's post?

The quote in which Professor Thiblin commits "to the more likely of the two scenarios".

You keep mentioning it but I've never seen it.