John Richardson

[Herlock Sholmes]

Does anyone have anything to add on the actual subject of the thread?

If not, perhaps it’s time to put the thread to bed. We can’t go any further down the rabbit-hole.

[FISHY1118]

Its not when you have unsafe witness testimony in support of a later time of death

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Quite right Trevor , this point has been discussed so much already, as has Dr Phillips estimate of t.o.d . When it comes evaluating the uncertain and ambiguious witness evidence, it becomes abundantly clear that to suggest a certain and accurate time of 5.30 am t.o.d based on witness and or medical testimony is futile, all we have is opinions and personnal choice based on such evidence.

The very fact some posters have failed miserably to admit this to themselves so as to continue the debate instead of engaging in an all out off topic slanging match is shameful pitiful on their behalf .

[Abby Normal]

Does anyone have anything to add on the actual subject of the thread?

If not, perhaps it’s time to put the thread to bed. We can’t go any further down the rabbit-hole.

agree. their heads are about to explode from too much logic

[Abby Normal]

I suppose that I am Old School. I was taught that good manners cost nothing, to respect other people and their opinions and to refrain from being intolerably smug or insufferably rude. Were I not, I might have unleashed a blistering attack, complete with expletives, on a supercilious poll designed solely to dispute a word meaning and attempt to impugn the language skill of other posters. Phillips didn't mention the word Caveat. Wynne Baxter didn't either, and he was a solicitor, so knew it to be a word used in legal application. He contented himself with using "qualified".

Has the poll achieved anything other than to create division and inhibit productive discussion?

oh cry me a river. i see you conveniently ignore it when it comes from your sides posters. the difference is we are right.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hands up anyone who has changed their point of view on this issue as a result of this thread?

[Abby Normal]

Hands up anyone who has changed their point of view on this issue as a result of this thread?

i have. im even more convinced that richardson couldnt have missed the body and she was killed around 5:30 and that phillips couldnt have possibly given an accurate tod. more importantly, i used to think richardson as a valid suspect for the ripper(and still is though to a lesser probability), however with cadosh hearing voices and the front door being wide open (kudos to the poster who picked up on that!)between that and Davis discovering the body and its a near certainty it was the ripper making his quick exit after killing chapman around 5:30.

it aint rocket science and the clues are there for those with eyes to see.

[GBinOz]

oh cry me a river. i see you conveniently ignore it when it comes from your sides posters. the difference is we are right.

And there it is!

[Abby Normal]

I suppose that I am Old School. I was taught that good manners cost nothing, to respect other people and their opinions and to refrain from being intolerably smug or insufferably rude. Were I not, I might have unleashed a blistering attack, complete with expletives, on a supercilious poll designed solely to dispute a word meaning and attempt to impugn the language skill of other posters. Phillips didn't mention the word Caveat. Wynne Baxter didn't either, and he was a solicitor, so knew it to be a word used in legal application. He contented himself with using "qualified".

Has the poll achieved anything other than to create division and inhibit productive discussion?

caveat? qualifier? really? give me a break with this nonsense..everyone knows exactly what were talking about. going down the semantics rabbit hole really shows yours desperation. and you just hate the poll because the truth hurts.

[Abby Normal]

And there it is!

yup! and by the way george, the amount and severity of the insults and personal attacks from your cohorts are much worse. i dont see you crying about that and frankly im tired of your im such a nice guy hypocrisy.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Quite right Trevor , this point has been discussed so much already, as has Dr Phillips estimate of t.o.d . When it comes evaluating the uncertain and ambiguious witness evidence, it becomes abundantly clear that to suggest a certain and accurate time of 5.30 am t.o.d based on witness and or medical testimony is futile, all we have is opinions and personnal choice based on such evidence.

The very fact some posters have failed miserably to admit this to themselves so as to continue the debate instead of engaging in an all out off topic slanging match is shameful pitiful on their behalf .

Those of us who have made the point about the unreliability the Doctors evidence have never said that Phillips must have been wrong. We have always accepted that he could have been right or he could have been wrong and the whole point is that we can’t push it either way. This is why I’ve said numerous times (and have been criticised for it) that Phillips evidence can get us nowhere. There is nothing unreasonable in this position. It’s simply a statement of fact. You and FM and Trevor and Harry have spent post after post trying to refute this despite the overwhelming evidence. You appear to now accept this? Although I’ve seen no sign of you actually admitting that you were wrong to question the evidence of the worlds experts in forensic medicine. FM still, even after all that has been posted, hangs on to the suggestion that a Victorian Doctor could have attained a level of accuracy that a modern day one cannot achieve. Yet you continually criticise the other side of the debate.

On the subject of the witnesses and John Richardson in particular the word ‘ambiguous’ is not accurate. Nothing that he said is ambiguous. The only thing ‘ambiguous’ is the interpretation of individuals who can of course come to different opinions. When looking at every single part of what Richardson said the only thing that posters latch onto like a life raft is one sentence about the knife at the inquest. And on that tiny issue you and others think that Richardson should be dismissed or demonised. Even though, if that interpretation was correct, then a) it made no sense and who actually have been gibberish, and b) we would have to assume that the coroner and the jury simply ignored this blatant gibberish. So in assessing this one tiny point we can see that it doesn’t hold water. I can’t think of a single witness in the case against whom so much effort has been made to try and discredit him?

Basically we have a Doctor whose estimation scientific fact tells us was unreliable and could have been wrong versus 3 witnesses (with no apparent reason for lying) who all must have been mistaken or lying? And on the older thread 94% went for witnesses over the Doctor.

[GBinOz]

And no one could fault that position.

Where has Lynn Cates changed his opinion George? According to the members list he hasn’t visited the site since before I joined?

Hi Herlock,

I'll answer your post # 2336 first. By feeling under the intestines he was accessing the core of the body where the temperate would most likely to have exhibited a residual. The intestines above that point would be acting as an insulation shield because they are exposed to the air.

I didn't say Lynn Cates had changed his opinion recently, I said I had recently noticed the change of opinion, because I have been recently reading old threads on Chapman, and Lynn was posting here:
https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...566-ac-and-tod, on a thread he created. As I read the thread I noticed that almost all the points I have raised on this thread were also being raised by Christer on that thread, particularly on pages 11 and 14, and they were all being rebuffed with similar arguments as here.

Some of the other old threads I read contained your posts. I mean no offense when I say that you were like a different person back then. You were not combative, were tolerant of others opinions, did not repeat your arguments or speak in absolutes, but were still very knowledgeable. For reasons best known to yourself you seem now to become agitated at differences of opinion and to engage far to much in personal attacks. I don't deny that others do the same, maybe I just expect better from you. May I suggest....relax and chill...we are not going to solve anything by arguing and in 100 years no one will know the difference.

Cheers, George

[Abby Normal]

Quite right Trevor , this point has been discussed so much already, as has Dr Phillips estimate of t.o.d . When it comes evaluating the uncertain and ambiguious witness evidence, it becomes abundantly clear that to suggest a certain and accurate time of 5.30 am t.o.d based on witness and or medical testimony is futile, all we have is opinions and personnal choice based on such evidence.

The very fact some posters have failed miserably to admit this to themselves so as to continue the debate instead of engaging in an all out off topic slanging match is shameful pitiful on their behalf .

lol. like yours, FM and macs continued direct personal insults and name calling against me, herlock and others?

Herlock, Jeff, Elmarna and others have provided you and your side a slew of science, research and studies that proves you are wrong and yet it is you and your ilk that "have failed miserably to admit this" to yourselves. Jeff provides a relevant study on digestive rates and what does he get in return? "yeah but the study dosnt specifically include potatoes" good lord.

[GBinOz]

yup! and by the way george, the amount and severity of the insults and personal attacks from your cohorts are much worse. i dont see you crying about that and frankly im tired of your im such a nice guy hypocrisy.

I don't have cohorts, and I have no control over the comments or behaviour of others, only my own.

[Abby Normal]

I don't have cohorts, and I have no control over the comments or behaviour of others, only my own.

right. but you dont call them out when they make personal attacks, which btw are much more frequent and severe, do you george? and everyone can see your backhanded insult you made to Herlock just now, and to Dickere on the other thread.

your true colors are there for everyone to see George, no matter how hard you try to hide them behind your self proclaimed nice guy image.

[Doctored Whatsit]

I don't have cohorts, and I have no control over the comments or behaviour of others, only my own.

Hi George,

This isn't aimed at you, yours just happens to be the last entry.

Come on guys! We have all lost the plot here. This debate has degenerated into arguments as to which side of the debate is behaving the nastiest.

We can all do better than this!