John Richardson

[Fleetwood Mac]

Richardson could just as easily had one foot in the door way inside and the other foot on the next step ,holding the door open at 45degree angle looking down to check the cellar door lock .

Which is not what Richardson tells Chandler. Richardson tells him that he was sure the body wasn't there, and so by inference Richardson is saying he could see into the spot where Annie's body was lying.

[The Macdonald Triad]

I just realized my side door is perfect for an experiment. When I'm not more pissed than a fart.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

At 29 Hanbury St, if you were standing in the doorway you were standing on the top step. Look at the photograph on page 1. The middle step is a block of stone sitting on two courses of brickwork. It would have a height of about 15". The bottom step is only about one brick high, about 3", and it appears in the photo that he flagging has been removed, so the bottom step was likely to be only marginally higher than the flagstones. There are not 3 steps below the doorway. Practically speaking, there is only one - the middle step.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

I was talking about how many steps Richardson would have taken - one step down onto the large middle step - second step down onto the smaller (3”) step - third step from the 3” step to the flags.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Richardson could just as easily had one foot in the door way inside and the other foot on the next step ,holding the door open at 45degree angle looking down to check the cellar door lock . Just as Chandlers mentioned in his testimony.That way he wouldn't have seen the body .

As in thats what Richardson told Chandler ,and perhaps thats how he done it.

No, he sat on the step to repair his boot, as he said under oath at the inquest.

[FISHY1118]

No, he sat on the step to repair his boot, as he said under oath at the inquest.

Yes i thought my post might not be as clear to some , so ive posted parts #450 just to tidy it up .

My recent post was just an example of how Richardson may have acted out what Chandler said he told him, thats all . I think Mac took it that i said Chandler himself said what i described, which i course is not the case.







Joseph Chandler, ''He ''told me'' he did not go down the steps''.

And this part


Coroner , Did you see John Richardson .?

Chandler, ''I saw him about quarter to seven, ''he told me'' he had been to the house that morning about quarter to five .''He said'' he came to the back door and looked down to the cellar to see if it was alright ,and then went away to his work''. By Chandler own testimony his leaving no doubt what he thinks Richardson did that morning ,which regardless how ever way you look at it, lets one accept what Chandler said ''under oath'' equally as what Richardson did!. That is just a fact.


As ive stated before and continue to do so , because of this testimony alone ,we cant judge Richardsons testimony that he sat on the step to cut his boot leather as being a better option, or more likely option , or even correct one , More than what Chandler has suggested. Its just not right to do so in my opinion.

[GBinOz]

George.

If you notice, both the early Echo reports claim the body was in a corner between the steps and the fence. It wasn't, the body was beside the fence, but ahead, forward of the steps.
Likewise, the last example claims the body could have been hidden by the door because the body was behind it, it wasn't behind the door. It was forward of the door.

Hi John:

Davis:
There was a little recess on the left. From the steps to the fence is about 3 ft. There are three stone steps, unprotected, leading from the door to the yard, which is at a lower level than that of the passage. Directly I opened the door I saw a woman lying down in the lefthand recess, between the stone steps and the fence.

Looking at Mason's boots I would judge the steps to be about 15", so I'd agree with Fishy's estimate.

Best regards, George

[GBinOz]

Where do we read the door rested against his body?

Can't think why they would, it has only been an issue here on Casebook.

Now then Jon. I didn't suggest that they wrote that the door rested against his body. I suggested the wrote the door was between JR and the body, and that they didn't write that the door was closed and therefore behind him.

The possibility was raised at the time and when JR augmented his story I think it very likely that a journalist might have checked and commented in print as above. JMO.

Best regards, George

[Wickerman]

Her head was "level" with the last step ,but not in front of it,.

Do you have a quote for that, I was thinking of this.


Phillips said.
"...The head was about 6in in front of the level of the bottom step, and the feet were towards a shed at the end of the yard."

https://www.casebook.org/official_documents/inquests/inquest_chapman.html

[Wickerman]

Hi John:

Davis:
There was a little recess on the left. From the steps to the fence is about 3 ft. There are three stone steps, unprotected, leading from the door to the yard, which is at a lower level than that of the passage. Directly I opened the door I saw a woman lying down in the lefthand recess, between the stone steps and the fence.

Looking at Mason's boots I would judge the steps to be about 15", so I'd agree with Fishy's estimate.

Best regards, George

You two guys......, tell me, why isn't it just easier to accept what we are told?

I already posted how Phillips described the placement in the Daily Telegraph, now here from the Times.
"....The head was about 6in. in front of the level of the bottom step,...."

[FISHY1118]

Do you have a quote for that, I was thinking of this.


Phillips said.
"...The head was about 6in in front of the level of the bottom step, and the feet were towards a shed at the end of the yard."
https://www.casebook.org/official_do...t_chapman.html

Joseph Chandler, Inspector H Division Metropolitan Police, deposed: On Saturday morning, at ten minutes past six, I was on duty in Commercial-street. At the corner of Hanbury-street I saw several men running. I beckoned to them. One of them said, "Another woman has been murdered." I at once went with him to 29, Hanbury-street, and through the passage into the yard. There was no one in the yard. I saw the body of a woman lying on the ground on her back. Her head was towards the back wall of the house, nearly two feet from the wall, at the bottom of the steps,

So just to be clear, i reasoning that the ''nearly two feet'' from the wall is less than two feet, so taking into account the distance from the back wall to edge of the last step into the yard would be more than two feet , so thereby saying ''at the bottom of the steps'' is probabaly a fairly accurate call from chandler ,more so than in front of them .

FWIW , either way which ever it was and whom one choses to accept as more accurate than the other , i will concede either way if richardson did in fact sit on the step to cut his boot i believe he would stiill have seen chapmans body had she been level with the bottom step or 6 inches infront.

But ''if''.

[GBinOz]

You two guys......, tell me, why isn't it just easier to accept what we are told?

I already posted how Phillips described the placement in the Daily Telegraph, now here from the Times.
"....The head was about 6in. in front of the level of the bottom step,...."

Shall we agree on this?



Best regards, George

[Wickerman]

Yes i thought my post might not be as clear to some , so ive posted parts #450 just to tidy it up .

My recent post was just an example of how Richardson may have acted out what Chandler said he told him, thats all . I think Mac took it that i said Chandler himself said what i described, which i course is not the case.

Joseph Chandler, ''He ''told me'' he did not go down the steps''.

And this part


Coroner , Did you see John Richardson .?

Chandler, ''I saw him about quarter to seven, ''he told me'' he had been to the house that morning about quarter to five .''He said'' he came to the back door and looked down to the cellar to see if it was alright ,and then went away to his work''. By Chandler own testimony his leaving no doubt what he thinks Richardson did that morning ,which regardless how ever way you look at it, lets one accept what Chandler said ''under oath'' equally as what Richardson did!. That is just a fact.


As ive stated before and continue to do so , because of this testimony alone ,we cant judge Richardsons testimony that he sat on the step to cut his boot leather as being a better option, or more likely option , or even correct one , More than what Chandler has suggested. Its just not right to do so in my opinion.

The Morning Advertiser, 14 Sept. adds a little more.

In reply to a question from the Jury, Chandler is reported to have said:

"The door opened into the yard and would hide the body from sight unless a person stood on the top of the steps or went into the yard. Richardson only told me that he went to the top of the steps and looked down into the cellar. He said nothing about having sat on the top step."

So, if Richardson said nothing about to Chandler about sitting on the steps, that doesn't mean he didn't.
Whereas, in his actual testimony Richardson does say he sat on the steps.
This is not a contradiction.

[Wickerman]

Shall we agree on this?



Best regards, George

You have the head by the side of the bottom step, why is that?

I already showed it this way.

I dimensioned it for a reason.

[FISHY1118]

You have the head by the side of the bottom step, why is that?

I already showed it this way.

I dimensioned it for a reason.

Thats a long way in front of that last step tho , Chandlers makes it less than two feet from the back wall , again like alot of testimony which one do we chose to accept.

[FISHY1118]

The Morning Advertiser, 14 Sept. adds a little more.

In reply to a question from the Jury, Chandler is reported to have said:

"The door opened into the yard and would hide the body from sight unless a person stood on the top of the steps or went into the yard. Richardson only told me that he went to the top of the steps and looked down into the cellar. He said nothing about having sat on the top step."

So, if Richardson said nothing about to Chandler about sitting on the steps, that doesn't mean he didn't.
Whereas, in his actual testimony Richardson does say he sat on the steps.
This is not a contradiction.

Yes however we still have richardson telling chandler what he did on the morning of the murder then adding the boot incident at the inquest . I see a problem with that .For obvious reasons.[to me anyway]

Some have questioned why richardson would make up ,or lie about the boot incident. ''If'' he did, i can certainly think of one very good reason . ill hold onto it for a little longer tho.