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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

    You’re creating mysteries where none exist Trevor. Can’t you think of any other ways of trying to discredit Richardson?
    Richardson created his own mystery, enhanced by the conflciting newspapers reports of the inquest regarding his movements.

    www.trevormarriott.co.uk

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    • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
      The knife, well, if you called it what it was, a butter-knife, and with a broken blade too. It's not the instrument the doctors were describing, so it might as well have been a spoon.
      Exactly, why would anyone even imagine they could cut leather with such a knife. But is was only the knife he presented. It wouldn't have done him any good to present to the coroner a nice sharp knife capable of achieving his task. That would have thrown a giant spotlight on him.

      This to me is over dramatic. If I had been to the yard, where a body was later found. It wouldn't take me hours/days to realize I'd have to be careful of what I say to police of they could get the wrong impression.
      You're probably right. I should have said a couple of days to present to the press a covering story.

      If I recall correctly, Richardson had no knowledge that Phillips thought the murder had taken place before he (Richardson) got there. So he wasn't making things up to avoid suspicion, he was just telling it like it was.
      It's not like Chandler is going to tell him "she was murdered about 4:15, so what were you doing here?"
      Richardson had no clue when she was murdered, he had no cause to make excuses. He said he could see all over the yard because as far as he was concerned the murder took place after he left.
      The point that I see is he was at a murder scene, and he was desperate to prove that the murder took place after he had left that scene, and therefore he could not have been involved in any way.
      Best regards, George
      “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

      “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.” “How do you know I'm mad?” said Alice. “You must be,” said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post

        With regards to the "no" heard, Cadosche says he heard that on the way to the toilet, and the thump upon his return. And as you say, there's nothing in his statement, that I recall at least, that suggests it was said in anything other than as part of a conversation, so I don't think that's the start of the attack, though the thump later heard suggests it is underway (whether that's Annie being lowered to the ground, or JtR shifting position as Cadoshe approaches and accidently bumps the fence, etc, is anybody's guess).

        - Jeff
        Hi Jeff,

        That was Cadosch's original story. Come the inquest it had evolved into two trips to the toilet with a 3-4 minute time gap between the two.

        Best regards, George
        “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

        “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.” “How do you know I'm mad?” said Alice. “You must be,” said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

          Richardson created his own mystery, enhanced by the conflciting newspapers reports of the inquest regarding his movements.

          www.trevormarriott.co.uk
          Not necessarily, because it might have been the case that Chandler simply misheard or misunderstood him. And I’ll say it again, even if Richardson hadn’t mentioned repairing his boot to Chandler that morning there still wouldn’t have been anything suspicious in that. So we should pay greater attention to what he said at the inquest….which was what actually happened. Add the fact that he had no reason to lie and add the fact that even if he had felt the need to lie he’d have been a colossal idiot to have ignored the 8 simple, more effective lies in favour of placing himself at the scene with a knife if that hadn’t actually been the case, and we can’t really fail to arrive at the conclusion that it’s overwhelmingly more likely that he’d sat on those steps. And as we have no way of knowing the exact details of any previous repair and how unsuccessful they were the exact point at which his boot began to hurt again there’s no point in speculating non-existent mysteries.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes

          “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

            Hi Jeff,

            That was Cadosch's original story. Come the inquest it had evolved into two trips to the toilet with a 3-4 minute time gap between the two.

            Best regards, George
            Or…..the newspapers version of what they believed that he’d meant?
            Regards

            Sir Herlock Sholmes

            “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”

            Comment


            • Originally posted by The Macdonald Triad View Post

              According to someone in this thread there was a separate knife that had nothing to do with the dull one supposedly used to cut up his rabbits carrot. I remember it being from either an news article or the inquest article. I'm too lazy to go find it, maybe someone else knows what I mean.
              Star 8 Sep:
              John Richardson, of 2, John-street, E.C., said to a Star reporter: - I am a porter in Spitalfields Market. I always go round to mother's (Mrs. Richardson, 29, Hanbury-street) on market mornings just to see that everything is right in the back-yard, where her underground packing-case workshops are. The place was burgled a short time back. This morning, as near as I know, it was ten minutes to five o'clock when I entered the backyard of 29. There was nobody there. Of that I am sure. I heard in the market at 6.20 a woman had been found murdered at mother's, and went round and saw the body. The police, by the doctor's order, took possession on my leather apron and knife that were on the premises, and also a box of nails, as well as three pills found near the body.

              Cheers, George
              “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

              “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.” “How do you know I'm mad?” said Alice. “You must be,” said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by The Macdonald Triad View Post

                A spring is a spring is a spring. Did she write his name on the spring like my mom used to do my skivvies? Why couldn't it have been anyone's spring? Was she given access to the spring in a spring lineup?
                “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

                “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.” “How do you know I'm mad?” said Alice. “You must be,” said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                  My questions aren't anything like so complicated, I just want to know what it looked like, how was it worn, what was it's purpose? - simple stuff like that

                  I know what a bicycle clip looks like, my Dad wore them for a while, it doesn't appear to be one of them.
                  Hi Jon,

                  I may be wrong but I thought leggings for a working man looked something like this:

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Can't imagine where the spring clip may be....perhaps instead of buttons, or involved with the strap that goes under the shoe.

                  Best regards, George
                  “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

                  “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.” “How do you know I'm mad?” said Alice. “You must be,” said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                    You’re creating mysteries where none exist Trevor. Can’t you think of any other ways of trying to discredit Richardson?
                    I'm sure he could, but his post is a good start.
                    Last edited by GBinOz; 07-27-2022, 09:52 AM.
                    “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

                    “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.” “How do you know I'm mad?” said Alice. “You must be,” said the Cat, or you wouldn't have come here.”

                    Comment


                    • Exactly George,and other ways have been shown.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

                        Hi Jon,

                        I may be wrong but I thought leggings for a working man looked something like this:

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	s-l1600.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	220.1 KB
ID:	790716

                        Can't imagine where the spring clip may be....perhaps instead of buttons, or involved with the strap that goes under the shoe.

                        Best regards, George
                        Thankyou George, yes those are spats, Astrachan wore some of them.

                        I've searched the net for spring-side boots, or side-spring boots. It's like Google hasn't a clue what I'm asking.
                        I think Google has dumbed down over the past few years. There was a time when it would find anything no matter how obscure, but these days all I get is add's for spring fashions!!

                        Some of the victims wore side-spring boots, I thought if I find them it might give a clue to what this object of Richardson's was. Or, maybe that is something altogether different.
                        So, I finally settled on some kind of early version of a bicycle clip.
                        No-one on here seems to have any better ideas.
                        Regards, Jon S.

                        Comment


                        • They’re boots without laces but with an elasticated section to make them easier to put on. I have a couple of pairs of such Chelsea boots myself.
                          Attached Files

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                          • I would imagine A man’s spats to have been dressier than the ones above, just covering his ankles.

                            Attached Files

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                            • Yep.
                              Hiding the buttons of any button up boots.
                              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                                Thankyou George, yes those are spats, Astrachan wore some of them.

                                I've searched the net for spring-side boots, or side-spring boots. It's like Google hasn't a clue what I'm asking.
                                I think Google has dumbed down over the past few years. There was a time when it would find anything no matter how obscure, but these days all I get is add's for spring fashions!!

                                Some of the victims wore side-spring boots, I thought if I find them it might give a clue to what this object of Richardson's was. Or, maybe that is something altogether different.
                                So, I finally settled on some kind of early version of a bicycle clip.
                                No-one on here seems to have any better ideas.
                                Spring-sided boots used elastic as the "spring", as Mr Barnett says.

                                The spring described by Chandler was metal and flat, so I doubt it was a bicycle clip. Along with the leather apron, it was also reported that a knife was found in the yard. These go from a knife (sometimes described as bloody) initially, then denials (sometimes in the same issue), to a piece of metal shaped like a knife, then finally to Chandler's flat metal spring. I suspect these are all one and the same object.

                                Evening News 8 Sept;
                                "There is, however, a gleam of hope now that the murderer or murderers may be brought to justice, for it is stated that near the body of the woman done to death with such inhuman ferocity this morning was discovered a large knife stained with blood and a leather apron."

                                PMG 8 Sept;
                                "The knife with which he disembowelled his unfortunate victim and a leathern apron were, it is said, found by the corpse"

                                And;
                                "A large knife stained with blood and a leathern apron, it was at first reported, were discovered near the body; but this is not so. There was, it is true, an apron, but that belonged to a young man who lives in the house, and uses it in his work."

                                Lloyds Weekly 9 Sept;
                                "Near the body was discovered a rough piece of iron shaped like a knife."

                                Daily News 10 Sept;
                                "With respect to the statement that a knife and apron were discovered beneath the body of Annie Chapman, it may be said that there was no knife; and though an apron was found it belonged to a man in the house, and no importance is attached to the fact, the police not having taken possession of it"

                                Telegraph 14 Sept;
                                "There was also a piece of steel, flat, which has since been identified by Mrs. Richardson as the spring of her son's leggings."
                                Last edited by Joshua Rogan; 07-27-2022, 01:16 PM.

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