Mrs. Fanny Mortimer, Time wrong?

[Observer]

Hi D

A bad penny always returns ! haha.

Yes she could have missed Smith, but we have no indication of how long Liz Stride remained on the pavement with Parcel Man after Smith had passed. They were static at the time of the Smith sighting, stood still, as Hilda Baker would have it. Are you suggesting that after Smith had moved on his way Liz Stride and Parcel Man removed immediately to the yard?

Regards

Observer

[DRoy]

Observer,

I was getting worried about you! Glad you're back.

Where do you think Liz Stride was when Mortimer commenced her so called vigii?

I think Stride was in the yard after Smith saw her. Hence nobody saw her.

You have expressed an opinion that Mortimer just failed to see PC Smith pass up Berner Street. Fair enough. But that still leaves Stride and Parcel Man standing facing her house after Smith had passed by them. Why did she fail to see Stride and Parcel Man standing opposite her house in Berner Street?

I believe she missed Smith because she came out of her house after the Smith
Sighting.

Cheers
DRoy

[DRoy]

Dave,

Did anyone at all see Schwartz? Pipeman? BS Man? Not one person. We do however know Mortimer was in the street because she identified Goldstein. Mortimer can't possibly be blamed for not seeing people that weren't there!

Cheers
DRoy

[Observer]

Dave,

Smith's inquest testimony shows even he wasn't aware of the correct time when he passed through Berner's (around 12:30 - 12:35) so is it not possible Mortimer was wrong as well and perhaps missed Smith by 1 minute?

What time is Mortimer most likely to be accurate about, when she first went outside or 4 minutes before Liz was found? Exactly.

So we can then estimate that if she thought she was outside for about 30 minutes, at the earliest she was outside around 20 (12:36 if Smith's 12:35 estimate is correct plus about 4 minutes before 1:00) and at the most about 25 (12:31 if Smith's 12:30 is correct plus about 4 minutes to 1:00). This of course isn't taking into consideration the exact time Liz being found.

Cheers
DRoy

Hi D

Been a while since I have visited Casebook, and I intend to revist the threads in order to address any outstanding issues I was involved in. But I have decided to start here, and ask you this question.

Where do you think Liz Stride was when Mortimer commenced her so called vigii?

You have expressed an opinion that Mortimer just failed to see PC Smith pass up Berner Street. Fair enough. But that still leaves Stride and Parcel Man standing facing her house after Smith had passed by them. Why did she fail to see Stride and Parcel Man standing opposite her house in Berner Street?

Indeed.

Why did Mortimer not see Stride at any time during the period she claimed to have stood at the door to her house?

I'm afraid Mortimer is not a very reliable witness

Regards

Observer

[DVV]

Hi Roy,

I will.
Eagle, Lave, BSM, Pipeman, Schwartz, and Stride.

Cheers

[DRoy]

Dave,

Who was she supposed to see? Please don't say Schwartz, Pipeman or BS Man!

Cheers
DRoy

[DVV]

Le mystère de la chambre jaune

Ok, therefore she was there but saw nobody except Goldstein.
How can such thing be ?

Cheers

[DRoy]

Dave,

Smith's inquest testimony shows even he wasn't aware of the correct time when he passed through Berner's (around 12:30 - 12:35) so is it not possible Mortimer was wrong as well and perhaps missed Smith by 1 minute?

What time is Mortimer most likely to be accurate about, when she first went outside or 4 minutes before Liz was found? Exactly.

So we can then estimate that if she thought she was outside for about 30 minutes, at the earliest she was outside around 20 (12:36 if Smith's 12:35 estimate is correct plus about 4 minutes before 1:00) and at the most about 25 (12:31 if Smith's 12:30 is correct plus about 4 minutes to 1:00). This of course isn't taking into consideration the exact time Liz being found.

Cheers
DRoy

[DVV]

Hi Roy,

if she were there all along (ie : from PC Smith passing by to 4 minutes before Diemshutz arrival), why did she see only Goldstein ?

Cheers

[DRoy]

Dave,

That section of article isn't quoted, who knows where that came from. There are however two stories "Interview With a Neighbor" and "Other Important Statements" from the same paper the same day where she is quoted. The ten minutes you mention seem to be an invention by the writer or was a second hand story from a neighbor.

Cheers
DRoy

[DVV]

Hi Roy

Evening News 1st October, "The Silence of the Murderer".

Cheers

[DRoy]

Dave,

Can you please show me where she is quoted as saying she was outside for 10 minutes? I don't recall reading that one.

I understand what you mean about estimating time but how wrong could she be about 4 minutes?

Cheers
DRoy

[DVV]

Since she was on the scene she would have heard from someone what time it was and could have estimated from that how long she was outside etc.
Cheers
DRoy

Hi DRoy

Precisely : it's particularly difficult to estimate how long you have stayed here or there without watch.(Got this from Einstein.)
She said she was outside 10 minutes (estimation), she said she was home for 4 minutes when she heard the pony (estimation again).
I simply tend to believe she stayed outside less than 10 minutes, but spent time home ("preparing for bed") more than 4 minutes.

Cheers

[DRoy]

What did Mortimer gain by saying she was outside almost the entire time from 12:30 - 1:00? What does she admit too that gives the impression she was just after attention? She admits to not seeing Stride or anyone suspicious. If she was after attention that was her chance to get it.

She didn't say she was in her house most of the time, she says she was outside almost the entire time.

I would say she was probably a bit wrong in her time though. The one time she couldn't get wrong was around 1:00 when she went to bed, heard the pony and cart arrive and Stride being found. Since she was on the scene she would have heard from someone what time it was and could have estimated from that how long she was outside etc. If she didn't have a clock at home then any one of the club members, doctors, police could have said the time.

Cheers
DRoy

[DVV]

She's the kind of witness for whom "being there" was not enough.
She had to be there all along.
A bit like Mrs Long who could tell the age and the origin of a man she did not see.