Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chapmanís death.

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • It is however a fact that Phillips TOD estimation is unreliable
    .

    There you go again, using the word fact when Phillips is concerned with his t.o.d being unreliable.


    When its just as much a fact that long codosch and richardson testimonies are also unreliable and contradictory.



    WHOS REALLY NITPICKING

    Comment


    • you seek to dismiss richardson on the grounds of an unrecorded and uncorroborated conversation in a passageway whilst dismissing his testimony under oath where he was 100% confident that he couldnít have missed a body had it been there.
      again.... What about chandlers 100% testimony of what richardson told him. Why doesn't that count .?

      Comment


      • Dr Phillips might have been right with his TOD. I don't think anyone has denied that.

        However, it would need all three witnesses to be in error. Long didn't see Chapman (possible), Cadosch didn't hear the murder (doubtful) and Richardson missed the body (inexplicable).

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
          .

          There you go again, using the word fact when Phillips is concerned with his t.o.d being unreliable.


          When its just as much a fact that long codosch and richardson testimonies are also unreliable and contradictory.



          WHOS REALLY NITPICKING
          What is your definition of the word Ďfactí Fishy as it appears to be different to the rest of us?

          If every single Forensic authority tells us that Phillips could not have accurately estimated Chapmanís TOD, AND THEY CERTAINLY DO FISHY, then we can call it a fact. Unless you know more on the subject than they do. Phillips is dismissed without a single, solitary shred of doubt. This leaves us with three witnesses.
          Regards

          Herlock




          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
            Dr Phillips might have been right with his TOD. I don't think anyone has denied that.

            However, it would need all three witnesses to be in error. Long didn't see Chapman (possible), Cadosch didn't hear the murder (doubtful) and Richardson missed the body (inexplicable).
            Yes Harry but, as the expert I quoted earlier stated explicitly, it would have been by luck. Not impossible though of course.

            Totally agree with your fair assessment of the three witnesses
            Regards

            Herlock




            “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
            “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
            “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
            “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
            “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

            Comment


            • Duplicated post.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

                again.... What about chandlers 100% testimony of what richardson told him. Why doesn't that count .?
                Thereís a big difference Fishy.

                Theres no one to back up Chandlers statement. No one else was there and it wasnít recorded. Also, when he brought this up at the Inquest, Richardson had already testified so he didnít get chance to respond to Chandlerís claim. Chandler might have misheard him. He might have misunderstood him. Richardson might simply have said something like....I went to the backdoor to check the cellar doors and there was definitely no body there - so there we would have a situation where he didnít mention sitting on the steps but there would have been nothing dodgy about it. Chandler would have had no reason to push for more details.

                We are therefore relying on one manís version of what might have been said. With the possibilities of error.

                At the Inquest however we know for certain what Richardson said. Plus he was cross-examined. We canít say that Richardson might or might not have said this or that at the Inquest but we can say that for Chandler in the passageway.

                Regards

                Herlock




                “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                Comment


                • dr phillips might have been right with his tod. I don't think anyone has denied that.

                  However, it would need all three witnesses to be in error. Long didn't see chapman (possible), cadosch didn't hear the murder (doubtful) and richardson missed the body (inexplicable).

                  long [definatley]

                  codosch [his own testimony proves nothing that anyone was in the yard between 5.i5 /5.30 ]

                  richardson [again his first statement to inspector chandler on the morning of the murder has him not sitting on the step and cutting his boot .

                  Thats how simple it is to suggest that the whole long codosch and richardson scenario is not a fact or proof that chapman was killed at 5.30am in the backyard of 29 handbury st .

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post


                    long [definatley]

                    codosch [his own testimony proves nothing that anyone was in the yard between 5.i5 /5.30 ]

                    richardson [again his first statement to inspector chandler on the morning of the murder has him not sitting on the step and cutting his boot .

                    Thats how simple it is to suggest that the whole long codosch and richardson scenario is not a fact or proof that chapman was killed at 5.30am in the backyard of 29 handbury st .
                    But you have no reasonable grounds to dismiss them. Why canít you se this?

                    Bu itís not that you canít see it though is it Fishy? This whole thread goes on because certain posters (including yourself) need Phillips to have been a magician and th witnesses to all have been liars or idiots. If you didnít support the Knight theory you would hardly have botched posting.

                    I nearly forgot...Iíll ask you for the seventh time:

                    Why is it that you strongly believe that Phillips made an accurate estimate of Chapmanís TOD (in the face of 100% of expert medical opinion)? Something that he couldnít have done.

                    And yet when Phillips undertook the far, far simpler task of checking for evidence of Annie being killed elsewhere he became completely incompetent.

                    Why was he an unprecedented genius at the difficult task
                    but a complete dimwit at the easier one?
                    Regards

                    Herlock




                    “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                    “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                    “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                    “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                    “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                    Comment


                    • why is it that you strongly believe that phillips made an accurate estimate of chapmanís tod (in the face of 100% of expert medical opinion)? Something that he couldnít have done.
                      because in the nichols , stride and eddowes cases the doctors were also correct with their t.o.d why should phillips have got it so wrong ?

                      oh wait maybe its because the witnesses and the police at the murder scenes told them how long the bodies were there so they turned around and went home without offering their expert medical opinions . Yer that must be it

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
                        Lets just try a new take on Chapman shall we , and concentrate solely on Mrs Longs testimony .... under oath, for that matters, as Herlock seems to put so much emphasis on this .

                        So for Chapman to be killed from 5.30 onward according to Mrs Long who claims she pass them in Handbury st at 5.32, that means the killer and Chapman, after Long passed then, casually walk through the passage of 29 Hanbury st .5.33 , stop behind the door for a little small talk at 5.34, then the killer strangles her rendering her unconscious 5.35 lays her body down to start a 15 minute mutilation ,escapes at 5.50 .

                        Body discovered at 6.00, and Phillips turns up at 6.30 gives his t.o.d at 2 hours probably more .
                        How can it be that he was an full 75 mins out with his time of death?


                        Answer .... He Wasn't .

                        Reason ... Albert Codosch

                        Albert could not have heard the ''NO'' at 5.20 and the the thud against the fence at 5.26 ''IF'' we are to believe Mrs Longs sworn testimony.

                        Time to eliminate one of theses untrue testimonies ... PICK ONE HERLOCK Long or codosch ?
                        Sorry...we are arguing about an earlier TOD than indicated by Phillips when compared with the witness statements? If Long and Cadosche happen to both be correct, then Annie is still alive, right? If just one is correct, then Annie is alive at that time, right? If you accept ALL the relevant witnesses, Richardson, the Cadosche, then Long, then Davis, then Annie alive until around 5:30, correct? Then the summary is that Phillips was wrong, simple, and no need for the petty BS that has ensued here.
                        Michael Richards

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

                          because in the nichols , stride and eddowes cases the doctors were also correct with their t.o.d why should phillips have got it so wrong ?

                          oh wait maybe its because the witnesses and the police at the murder scenes told them how long the bodies were there so they turned around and went home without offering their expert medical opinions . Yer that must be it
                          Ok so youíre back on that drivel?

                          Sir Bernard Knight is wrong?
                          Sir Keith Simpson is wrong?
                          Jason Payne-James is wrong?

                          Every single authority on the subject is wrong.

                          Every scholarly, peer-reviewed paper on the subject is wrong.

                          Every standard textbook on the subject is wrong.

                          .
                          ďMany pathologists have in the past used various 'rules of thumb' to calculate time of death from the body temperature but these are generally so unreliable that they should not now be used. Sometimes the perceived warmth of the body to touch is mentioned in court as an indicator of time of death; this assessment is so unreliable as to be useless and is even more so if the pathologist is asked to comment upon the reported perceptions of another person.".

                          Source: 'Simpson's Forensic Medicine' (13th edition), lead author Jason Payne-James.
                          Even The Coroner:

                          . Dr. Phillips thinks that when he saw the body at 6.30 the deceased had been dead at least two hours, but he admits that the coldness of the morning and the great loss of blood may affect his opinion; and if the evidence of the other witnesses be correct, Dr. Phillips has miscalculated the effect of those forces.
                          Just in case you try the old digestion argument:

                          .
                          From "Time of Death, Decompensation and Identification: An Atlas" by Jay Dix and Michael Graham (1999):

                          "Some foods such as celery, onion, potato, corn and tomato skins typically take longer than meat or other foods to exit the stomach"
                          Another one dismissing digestion:

                          . And hereís one explaining why itís unsafe to use stomach content to estimate TOD

                          http://viewfromwilmington.blogspot.c...-estimate.html
                          and more

                          . the leading textbook of Simpson on Forensics (by Jason Payne James & co) which tells us that analysis of gastric contents "cannot reliably be used to determine time of death".
                          then this

                          . Professor Bernard Knight - an actual expert in forensic pathology - who said that the 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit (note Fahrenheit not Celsius) formula is "almost always wrong" and, if ever correct, it was "by chance"

                          There are many more of course.

                          What Iíd suggest though Fishy is that you should write to all of the worldís authorities and all of the societies and tell them that they are all wrong because three Victorian doctors appear to have gotten it right. Iím sure theyíll sayĒ

                          Thank you for putting us right Fishy. Weíve been wrong all of these years. Would you believe it? How embarrassing for us.


                          Fame and fortune awaits you Fishy.
                          Regards

                          Herlock




                          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post


                            long [definatley]

                            codosch [his own testimony proves nothing that anyone was in the yard between 5.i5 /5.30 ]

                            richardson [again his first statement to inspector chandler on the morning of the murder has him not sitting on the step and cutting his boot .

                            Thats how simple it is to suggest that the whole long codosch and richardson scenario is not a fact or proof that chapman was killed at 5.30am in the backyard of 29 handbury st .
                            What do you mean by 'scenario'? The testimony of Richardson, Long and Cadosch is fact - they did say what they are reported to have said. And I don't think anyone is seriously saying that there testimony proves Chapman's time of death. There are problems with their testimony which argues that we adopt caution, but nothing proves their testimony should be disregarded.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PaulB View Post

                              What do you mean by 'scenario'? The testimony of Richardson, Long and Cadosch is fact - they did say what they are reported to have said. And I don't think anyone is seriously saying that there testimony proves Chapman's time of death. There are problems with their testimony which argues that we adopt caution, but nothing proves their testimony should be disregarded.
                              I agree their statements don't prove empirically the time that Annie died, but combined they all do prove empirically that Annie didn't die until after 5am. We know when she was found....so it should be fairly simple to provide a time window for her murder. Without the baseless discrediting any what any witness said,... other than Phillips of course.
                              Last edited by Michael W Richards; 09-17-2019, 01:21 PM.
                              Michael Richards

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                                I agree their statements don't prove empirically the time that Annie died, but combined they all do prove empirically that Annie didn't die until after 5am. We know when she was found....so it should be fairly simple to provide a time window for her murder. Without the baseless discrediting any what any witness said,... other than Phillips of course.
                                Yes, indeed. But Fishy1118 may not draw that distinction. I assumed that he didn't.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X