Chapman’s death.

[jmenges]

Unless we have new evidence or information, I fear we will get no closer to agreement and the discussion has become somewhat . . . unconstructive.

Welcome to Ripperology.

JM

[etenguy]

Can we close threads? Unless we have new evidence or information, I fear we will get no closer to agreement and the discussion has become somewhat . . . unconstructive.

[The Baron]

and that proves beyond any reasonable doubt that Liz dies after 5 and before 6. There is no legitimate argument against that.

Yes there is, she was Chapman, not Liz!

Isn't that legitimate enough ?!



The Baron

[Michael W Richards]

So take this reality shock, it will be hard:


"The phases of rigor mortis can be extremely helpful in piecing together the circumstances and timing of a death. Rigor is one of the many potential clues examined by crime scene technicians, forensic pathologists, and detectives during an investigation to determine the proper manner of death (i.e., homicide, suicide, accident, or natural causes). It may also verify or refute a witness or suspect statement and can sometimes indicate whether a body has been moved after death. It is a valuable indicator that cannot be overlooked.

About the Author: Jennifer Bucholtz is a former U.S. Army Counterintelligence Agent and a decorated veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. She holds a Bachelor of Science in criminal justice, Master of Arts in criminal justice and Master of Science in forensic sciences. Bucholtz has an extensive background in U.S. military and Department of Defense counterintelligence operations. While on active duty, she served as the Special Agent in Charge for her unit in South Korea and Assistant Special Agent in Charge at stateside duty stations. Bucholtz has also worked for the Arizona Department of Corrections and Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in New York City. She is currently an adjunct faculty member at American Military University and teaches courses in criminal justice and forensic sciences. Additionally, she is a licensed private investigator in Colorado"



First Lesson:


Don't let others do your homeworks



The Baron

Are you suggesting that anyone disagrees about the importance of attempting to establish a rough TOD by state of rigor? Cause no-one has. What people have been saying, logically and reasonably, is that Phillips estimate is provably wrong by virtue of close proximity witness statements about the specific location that the murder occurred in...before and after its occurrence. She wasn't there at 4:50, she was at 5:50. One witness heard something from that same spot, a voice, around 5:15. There is your evidence, and that proves beyond any reasonable doubt that Annie dies after 5 and before 6. There is no legitimate argument against that.

There are legitimate arguments about Phillips abilities to guess any kill time considering the lack of exposure he had with something like this up until that point...he had no experience with something like this.

[jmenges]

I’m about to start passing out red cards for personal attacks and sending a few of you on a short vacation.

Stop it.

JM

[John G]

I think we're going around in circles here. Jennifer Bucholtz isn't saying that rigor mortis can determine a precise time of death. In fact, here's where she clearly states that it can assist in estimating time of death: https://inpublicsafety.com/2019/02/h...time-of-death/ If you read the article in full, you will also note how she highlights how various factors can affect the onset of rigor, most of which were not even considered by Dr Phillips.

In any event, cut throat and tuberculosis both cause early onset rigor, so how on earth is the rigor mortis evidence inconsistent with an earlier time of death?

[The Baron]

From Professor Baron of Narnia.



Name one reason?

Every single Forensic experts says that a TOD estimate using the methods that Phillips employed was unsafe and unreliable.

Every single one Baron.

If I’m wrong name the Forensic expert that disagrees.

Read the last post, it will teach you to stop spreading your phantasies all over the thread.


You have been proved wrong.



The Baron

[The Baron]

However, if Dr Phillips's estimated time of death is untenable, and there seems to be good reasons for supposing that it is, then it is necessary to consider the time of death suggested by the witness testimony. Don't you consider that that is the proper approach to take? It is certainly the approach I have taken, and I think it is also the approach Herlock has take.

So take this reality shock, it will be hard:


"The phases of rigor mortis can be extremely helpful in piecing together the circumstances and timing of a death. Rigor is one of the many potential clues examined by crime scene technicians, forensic pathologists, and detectives during an investigation to determine the proper manner of death (i.e., homicide, suicide, accident, or natural causes). It may also verify or refute a witness or suspect statement and can sometimes indicate whether a body has been moved after death. It is a valuable indicator that cannot be overlooked.

About the Author: Jennifer Bucholtz is a former U.S. Army Counterintelligence Agent and a decorated veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. She holds a Bachelor of Science in criminal justice, Master of Arts in criminal justice and Master of Science in forensic sciences. Bucholtz has an extensive background in U.S. military and Department of Defense counterintelligence operations. While on active duty, she served as the Special Agent in Charge for her unit in South Korea and Assistant Special Agent in Charge at stateside duty stations. Bucholtz has also worked for the Arizona Department of Corrections and Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in New York City. She is currently an adjunct faculty member at American Military University and teaches courses in criminal justice and forensic sciences. Additionally, she is a licensed private investigator in Colorado"



First Lesson:


Don't let others do your homeworks



The Baron

[Abby Normal]

An excellently lucid and succinct summary amid the carnage of this thread!

I am in complete agreement.

I agree-good concise post Eten.

and yes eventhough there is alot of carnage in this thread the sliver lining is that a lot of great info has been provided-on both sides.
some of the insults and counter insults have been pretty creative and funny I have to admit.

[DJA]

Handy quality with some of Australia's best surf beaches at the bottom of the mountain range.

Sharks refuse to eat us,because we taste funny

[Herlock Sholmes]

Clown

[DJA]

Do you know that by using the same psychic powers that you used to deduce a blackmail plot from three words.

Youre not alone. You have Fishy and The Baron to keep you warm.

I was correct again.

Crikey,you're predictable.

Don't last long ,do you!

[DJA]

You do post too much.

And you know because you follow him everywhere

[Herlock Sholmes]

Promise,promises.

You can't help yourself.

I know what makes you tick and I am not alone.

Do you know that by using the same psychic powers that you used to deduce a blackmail plot from three words.

Youre not alone. You have Fishy and The Baron to keep you warm.

[DJA]

I won’t bother responding to any of your drivel after this post.

Promise,promises.

You can't help yourself.

I know what makes you tick and I am not alone.

PS Next time you are PMing Sam,give him my regards.He seems to have me on ignore.