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  • That the doctors correctly identified the time of death in the case of Nichols, Stride and Eddowes needs to be examined on their own merits because factors not featuring in the case of Chapman may have influenced their conclusion, and whilst you may have evaluated each case individually you'll hopefully forgive me if I don't plough through more than fifteen hundred messages to see if you have or not. However, it does seem to be a fact that modern medical opinion is that the methods employed by Dr Phillips to establish time of death were unreliable in the extreme and should not be relied on. Arguing that the doctors got the time of death right in the case of Nichols, Stride and Eddowes, doesn't really carry weight against the sources cited that strongly suggest (some would argue proves) that Phillips' methods didn't get it right in Chapman's case.

    You keep saying the witness testimony is unreliable, but it isn't. There is nothing inherently unreliable about Cadosch's testimony. What makes it unreliable is the supposition that the word "no" could have been uttered by someone in some other yard, but that is just a possibility, it hasn't been proven or even been shown to be likely. The same can be said about Richardson and Long.

    Your argument is based on maybes.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by John G View Post

      Thanks! Incidentally, the annual risk of tuberculosis infection has been estimated to be 19% in 1882 (the year Koch discovered tubercle bacillus.) The annual risk of infection of 0-4 year olds from tuberculosis meningitis, in England and Wales, has been estimated to be about 12.7% in 1901: see The Annual Risk of Infection with Mycobacterium Tuberculosis in England and Wales since 1901, E Vynnycky and P.E.M Fine, Int J Tuberc Lung Dis 1 (5): 389-396.
      Lost a lot of my data from 11 years ago,however pretty sure the TB rate in the "Whitechapel" area was ~ 25%.

      That and the living area per capita really surprised a screenwriter at the time.

      Times were tough.

      Thanks
      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

      Comment


      • Originally posted by jmenges View Post
        Herlock,
        I can’t caution Fishy about calling people names without applying the same rule to everyone else.
        “Biased” is ok but drop the “loony”.
        Thanks

        JM
        No problem JM
        Regards

        Herlock






        "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
          Albert Cadosch [Cadoche] deposed: I live at 27, Hanbury-street, and am a carpenter. 27 is next door to 29, Hanbury-street. On Saturday, Sept. 8, I got up about a quarter past five in the morning, and went into the yard. It was then about twenty minutes past five, I should think. As I returned towards the back door I heard a voice say "No" just as I was going through the door. It was not in our yard, but I should think it came from the yard of No. 29.'' I, however, cannot say on which side it came from.''

          FOR THOSE WHO ARENT SURE EXACTLY WHAT THIS MEANS ..... LET ME GIVE YOU A HINT , IT MEANS ''I HOWEVER CANNOT SAY WHICH SIDE IT CAME FROM''

          RIGHT THERE IN THAT ONE LINE, ALLOWS US TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN USING MR CODOSCH TO LEAD US TO BELIEVE THAT ANNIE CHAPMAN WAS IN THE YARD ALIVE AT 5.20 AM .

          Nice piece of selective emphasis Fish.

          Why not emphasise this part

          . but I should think it came from the yard of No. 29.
          Tell me this Fishy. If you made these statements:

          A)

          “I think that I saw Herlock Sholmes at 2.30 but I could be mistaken.”

          and B)

          “I certainly saw Paul Begg at 3.00 though.”

          Would you dismiss statement B) because of statement A) ?

          Because this is exactly what you are trying to do. You are treating Cadosch’s hearing the word “no’ as if it was a lie which affected his credibility when it wasn’t. One statement in no way discredits the other.
          Regards

          Herlock






          "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

            We also know this because we know that Eddowes was killed where she was found. Only a biased loony would suggest otherwise.
            We don't actually.

            Strongly suspect she died from strangulation like Chapman and Stride, and was dragged into Mitre Square proper from behind the fence. Accounts for the uncanny timing.

            If Chapman was dragged off Hanbury Street in a choke hold,she would have been unconscious or dead in the backyard.

            Have a read of the book Joshua Rogan suggested and compare it to Chapman and Stride's autopsies.

            Unfortunately this thread has been unreadable due to your feeding of the fishpeople.

            Once again ..... Chapman's temperature would have been very low due to her TB.

            HAVE A LOOK AT THE FACTS FOR A CHANGE!
            Last edited by DJA; 09-21-2019, 02:56 PM.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DJA View Post

              We don't actually.

              Strongly suspect she died from strangulation like Chapman and Stride, and was dragged into Mitre Square proper from behind the fence. Accounts for the uncanny timing.

              If Chapman was dragged off Hanbury Street in a choke hold,she would have been unconscious or dead in the backyard.

              Have a read of the book Joshua Rogan suggested and compare it to Chapman and Stride's autopsies.

              Unfortunately this thread has been unreadable due to your feeding of the fishpeople.

              Once again ..... Chapman's temperature would have been very low due to her TB.

              HAVE A LOOK AT THE FACTS FOR A CHANGE!
              And of course the ripper would have gotten into a scuffle in the Street because why wouldn’t he want to have drawn attention to himself. Another ‘theory’ shaping the evidence on your part I’m afraid. Chapman was a prostitute who would have taken her client into the yard.
              Regards

              Herlock






              "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

              Comment


              • . Unfortunately this thread has been unreadable due to your feeding of the fishpeople.
                This thread has been perfectly readable by the way.
                Regards

                Herlock






                "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                  [COLOR=black [/COLOR]

                  Suspect Long overheard a blackmail attempt by Chapman.
                  Not a smidgeon Of evidence for this of course.

                  Regards

                  Herlock






                  "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                  Comment


                  • Strongly suspect she died from strangulation like Chapman and Stride,
                    And your evidence that she couldn’t have been strangled where she was found is.......
                    Regards

                    Herlock






                    "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PaulB View Post
                      That the doctors correctly identified the time of death in the case of Nichols, Stride and Eddowes needs to be examined on their own merits because factors not featuring in the case of Chapman may have influenced their conclusion, and whilst you may have evaluated each case individually you'll hopefully forgive me if I don't plough through more than fifteen hundred messages to see if you have or not. However, it does seem to be a fact that modern medical opinion is that the methods employed by Dr Phillips to establish time of death were unreliable in the extreme and should not be relied on. Arguing that the doctors got the time of death right in the case of Nichols, Stride and Eddowes, doesn't really carry weight against the sources cited that strongly suggest (some would argue proves) that Phillips' methods didn't get it right in Chapman's case.

                      You keep saying the witness testimony is unreliable, but it isn't. There is nothing inherently unreliable about Cadosch's testimony. What makes it unreliable is the supposition that the word "no" could have been uttered by someone in some other yard, but that is just a possibility, it hasn't been proven or even been shown to be likely. The same can be said about Richardson and Long.

                      Your argument is based on maybes.
                      Reason is becoming an increasing rarity around here.
                      Regards

                      Herlock






                      "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                        This thread has been perfectly readable by the way.
                        Been an absolute disgrace.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                          Not a smidgeon Of evidence for this of course.
                          [Coroner] Were they talking loudly? - They were talking pretty loudly. I overheard him say to her "Will you?" and she replied, "Yes." That is all I heard, and I heard this as I passed. I left them standing there, and I did not look back, so I cannot say where they went to.

                          Does that sound like a prostitute soliciting a client,or something else.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DJA View Post

                            Been an absolute disgrace.
                            At least your hear to inject your superior intellect and raise the standard then

                            Pardon me for posting evidence from medical authorities and trying to apply logic and reason to the assessment of the witnesses in the face of an absence of logic and reason.
                            Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 09-21-2019, 03:52 PM.
                            Regards

                            Herlock






                            "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DJA View Post

                              [Coroner] Were they talking loudly? - They were talking pretty loudly. I overheard him say to her "Will you?" and she replied, "Yes." That is all I heard, and I heard this as I passed. I left them standing there, and I did not look back, so I cannot say where they went to.

                              Does that sound like a prostitute soliciting a client,or something else.
                              Do prostitutes and clients have a standard script that they employ? We have absolutely no way of knowing what they were talking about.

                              Perhaps she was feeling ill and didnt intend on finding a customer. The ripper met her and after a brief chat he persuaded her. Simple.
                              Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 09-21-2019, 03:53 PM.
                              Regards

                              Herlock






                              "Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                                And of course the ripper would have gotten into a scuffle in the Street because why wouldn’t he want to have drawn attention to himself. Another ‘theory’ shaping the evidence on your part I’m afraid. Chapman was a prostitute who would have taken her client into the yard.
                                They had already drawn attention to themselves.

                                He got her off the street swiftly.

                                It takes a second to apply a choke hold.

                                The evidence has shaped my theory.

                                You prefer to ignore the facts, so that you can indulge yourself in endless nonsense,as continually evidenced on this thread.

                                Chapman might be the woman of your fantasies of prostitutes,doubt many others have similar "tastes".
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                                Comment

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