Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[moonbegger]

Ok .. Disregard the Medics too

i think there is a very small book in there for someone

moonbegger

[Bridewell]

Originally Posted by Bridewell

I also have doubts about the evidence of Cadosch, but not for the same reasons.

Regards, Bridewell.

I would be interested in hearing your reasons.

Thanks,

If you subscribe to Ripperologist you'll get to know very soon.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Stephen Thomas]

For anyone bemused by the word 'cobblers', it's cockney rhyming slang.

Cobblers=cobbler's awls=balls.

The awl was a metal spike used to pierce shoe leather prior to stitching.

[Cogidubnus]

S'alright Stephen...I'll not be calling you a berk!

Dave

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Dave

Best to keep that one a secret from our American friends.

[Cogidubnus]

Yeah but they can always 'ave a butchers at a dick!

Dave

[moonbegger]

Ha Ha , How to confuse a septic , i'm off for a pigs ear down the frog .. any way , what about poor ol Annie's Tom ? who half inched it ? and did Richardsons plates even make it to the apples , or was he telling porkies ?


bottoms up old ****
moonbegger .

[curious]

Originally Posted by Bridewell


Regards, Bridewell.


If you subscribe to Ripperologist you'll get to know very soon.

Regards, Bridewell.

Another writer! Is everyone in the Ripper world a writer?

tell me which issue and I'll see.

Thx,

but it would be better thx if you gave a hint or two I won't tell anyone.

[curious]

Hi Curious

Like Mrs Long I walk (just over half a mile in my case) every morning at a regular time (to catch a bus)...been doing so for over 20 years...It takes me just seven minutes and I get used to seeing the same people in the same places most days, and many of them I greet like familiar old friends...Like you though, some mornings I'm on autopilot and it's all fairly automatic...

However, other mornings, if something odd occurs perhaps, or I bump into the local loonie (god forbid 'cos he's a pain!), or if I run late and have to hurry (or if I miss the bus), then I do tend to wake up and notice more...and what's more can recall too - for example I can tell you the local loonie nabbed me last Thursday, a day I was a little late anyway, and pursued me all the way to the bus stop...and I can recall seeing the Jack Russel lady that day (she was also running about 5 minutes late)...but not two toddlers lady with her pushchair, nor Peter from the Nursing Home, nor Marianne the night shift nurse....However the young lady who works in the fashion shop in Chichester was waiting at the bus stop (unusual because Wednesday and Thursday are her days off) and smiled at me in sympathy...

So I'd guess it depends...Mrs Long may've heard the quarter strike and assumed she was running late - so she just might have disengaged autopilot that day...who knows?

As I stated, it's tempting to disregard her, but start dropping the testimony of too many first hand witnesses and where does any of the testimony go? The whole case dissolves...Personally, as regards reliability, I don't much rate Pearly Poll, Richardson, Schwartz or Hutchinson (not to mention Packer, but for gods sake don't tell Tom!)... but I feel most uncomfortable departing cleanly from them without really solid reason. I'd rather note my doubts, file them away, and see what else comes along...

All the best

Dave

Hi, Dave,
Our work commutes are very different. I drive about 10 miles and almost never pass anyone I know. And we must each decide how this case makes sense to us individually.

curious

[moonbegger]

Hi Dave / Curious
I guess it all depends on how much weight and credibility we assign to each of the pivotal players on this particular morning .. once we start to chip away at the timing issue's , as Dave rightly points out , we are in danger of chipping away too deep and possibly destroying something of value that has been set in stone for years .. I have a good friend who works out in the badlands of Alberta , Canada , excavating Dinosaur bones, the main focus and priority should always be the bone itself , and not so much the 65 million year old rock encasing it .. i guess you all get the cut of my jib here .
But back to hanbury street, and who saw what , and when they saw it ..
Time is the one thing that can, and should be relied upon without fail ( unless you got a crap watch, like me The combination of medical science and time are the tools we should be using to unearth this monster . Not people , People make mistakes , no matter how observant or truthful or in control we think we are .. we crash cars , forget birthdays , anniversaries , names , we think we see Big Foots , and UFO's and the loch ness monster ( and all that is just me ) And so in light of such compelling Medical and Time Evidence at hand , lets not just disregard it and rely solely on what someone thinks they may have seen, or what they think they may have heard , at a time they thought it was . like i mentioned early
Yes she did quite clearly impress the Coroner , But so too did Richardson ? And when you loosen Richardson's pivitol strangle hold on the inquest .. it automatically adds a ton of extra weight behind Dr Phillips original TOD , which in turn renders Longs ID of Annie and her killer redundent , along with all the timing issues .. which leaves us with cadosh , who clearly heard something , Who knows , maybe a low life riffling through dead Annies pockets while his or her freind protests " No ", or maybe even another couple a yard or three down ?

cheers .
moonbegger.

[Bridewell]

Which leaves us with cadosh , who clearly heard something , Who knows , maybe a low life riffling through dead Annies pockets while his or her freind protests " No ", or maybe even another couple a yard or three down ?

Hi MB,

'As he returned across the yard, to the back door of his house, he heard a voice say quite close to him, "No" '

Do you think 'a yard or three down' is compatible with 'quite close to him'?

Regards, Bridewell.

[moonbegger]

Too funny

Hi Bridewell ,

I must say , i find it hilarious that you went through my whole post and decided to pick the bones out of my after thought .. is this some sort of misdirection conspiracy going on here

cheers big ears
moonbegger

The Tree is in my garden ... Born and raised in whitechapel , if i wanna pick apples of my tree i will , and they wont hurt me if they do fall on my head .. go pick apples off your own tree

[Cogidubnus]

Nag Nag Nag...

OK this has been playing away quietly at the back of my mind and I need to get it off my chest...

Suppose we accept that Richardson is an unreliable witness (put up to testifying by his Mum who thinks he checked out the yard, when he skived off that day, and who subsequently embroiders, badly, on his tale)...

Then suppose by assuming we can synchronise the testimony of Cadosch and Mrs Long, by asserting she heard the quarter hour struck and thought it was the half-hour...

OK one step further...Mrs Long has been told Annie Chapman (who she knows, having bought items from her) is dead, and is thus predisposed to identify her as the woman she saw at 0515 or thereabouts...she correctly identifies Annie Chapman in the mortuary but is mistaken in that this isn't in fact the woman she saw on Saturday morning...

So we have another prostitute and her client making their way into the back yard of Number 29 for a quicky...

The body (which has been there for an hour or two) is discovered - prostitute issues a muffled "no" in horror...so far, so good...we're square with Cadosch's testimony, square with the medical evidence, and square with Jack's propensity to murder in the hours of darkness...

And then what?

Logic would say the prostitute faints in horror and pitches forward against the fence...However, Cadosch says "No" was heard on his 0525 visit to the yard...he then goes back indoors, and revisits the yard at 0528 and it is only on the second visit he hears the thump...how can this be reconciled folks? Even discarding one witnesses testimony and slightly bending anothers, it still doesn't seem to tie up...something hit the fence some minutes after "no"

OK this isn't a very constructive posting, but as I said, I needed to get it off my chest!

Best wishes all

Dave

[Bridewell]

Conspiracy?

Hi Bridewell ,

I must say , i find it hilarious that you went through my whole post and decided to pick the bones out of my after thought .. is this some sort of misdirection conspiracy going on here

cheers big ears
moonbegger

The Tree is in my garden ... Born and raised in whitechapel , if i wanna pick apples of my tree i will , and they wont hurt me if they do fall on my head .. go pick apples off your own tree

I wasn't aware it was an afterthought. I didn't "pick the bones out of" anything. I simply asked a question, which was:

Do you think 'a yard or three down' is compatible with 'quite close to him'?

No, I'm not conspiring with anyone.

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

time

Hello Dave. That IS difficult to harmonise.

On the other hand, if the strangulation began just after, "No" it should have been finished in the time it took to hear the thump. Of course, I allow for some struggle.

Cheers.
LC