Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[moonbegger]

Hello MB. Thanks. But sound aside, if someone falls the other side of the fence, you would see a slight shaking. (This may be tried if you have a wooden fence.)

The argument about Mrs. Long could be made for any one of the witnesses.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn

You make a great point here ,, We know from the inquest that the fence was not it great shape .. infact it was quite the opposite apparently .. so would a sudden slump of any kind make the fence shudder .. and if so , would not cadosh make more of a point of including it in his statement ?

cheers
moonbegger .

[moonbegger]

Hello again Bridewell ,

"As for Mrs Long's evidence. If she was making it all up, why was she certain of some things, but unsure of others? If the whole thing was invention, why not claim to be confident throughout? She quite clearly impressed the coroner, so where is the justification for suggesting that she lied?"

Yes she did quite clearly impress the Coroner , But so too did Richardson ? And when you weaken Richardson's pivitol strangle hold on the inquest .. it automatically adds a ton of extra weight behind Dr Phillips original TOD , which in turn renders Longs ID of Annie and her killer redundent , along with all the timing issues .. which leaves us with cadosh , who clearly heard something , Who knows , maybe a low life riffling through dead Annies pockets while his or her freind protests " No ", or maybe even another couple a yard or three down ?

"so where is the justification for suggesting that she lied?"

i would much rather go along with the idea that she was confused about the
date, as Curious proposed a few posts back . but failing that i wouldn"t rule out the possibility that she sold viniger with lumps in, as pickled onions
for many a reason that i mentioned earlier .. also a heafty reward that was awaiting some lucky bugger .. Honest people lie , Liars are occasionally honest .. and for most of the time its for personal reasons that most on the outside wouldn't understand anyway .

moonbegger

[cats meat man]

Hello MB. Thanks. But sound aside, if someone falls the other side of the fence, you would see a slight shaking. (This may be tried if you have a wooden fence.)

The argument about Mrs. Long could be made for any one of the witnesses.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn. The neighbours were'nt too happy when I came crashing through their fence this morning!

[curious]

Hello Lynn. The neighbours were'nt too happy when I came crashing through their fence this morning!

Funny.

We really must draw the line at some re-enactment! Someone could get hurt.

[cats meat man]

From the latest A-Z relating to Annie Chapman:
She may be the same as the Annie Chapman ( aged 45) who is recorded in the Thames Police Court Register on 10 October 1885 as being convicted of stealing a hammer , being fined 20/- or 14 days.
John Richardson
About 4.45am, on 8 September 1888, he called in at 29 Hanbury Street on his way to work to check the cellar door padlock. The cellar was broken into some months earlier and two saws and two hammers had been stolen, since which time he had taken to visiting the house on market mornings.

See saw Margery Daw
Jacky shall have a new master
Jacky shall work for a penny a day
Because he can't work any faster

[cats meat man]

Funny.

We really must draw the line at some re-enactment! Someone could get hurt.

Hello Curious
It's ok. I'm a stunt man. At least I think that's what he called me!

[lynn cates]

signs

Hello Velma. Of course, with Bury it is legend.

And you are right that we don't know who took the rings. Of course, we do know they were wrenched off, given the marks. So:

1. It was ante mortem.

2. Not done gently.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fencing

Hello MB. Thanks.

"would a sudden slump of any kind make the fence shudder?"

That would depend on the force exerted. I believe AC said something touched the fence.

"and if so, would not Cadosh make more of a point of including it in his statement?"

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

bad pun

Hello CMM.

"Hello Lynn. The neighbours weren't too happy when I came crashing through their fence this morning!"

Hmm, my face is paling at the thought. (sorry)

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Hello MB. Thanks.

"would a sudden slump of any kind make the fence shudder?"

That would depend on the force exerted. I believe AC said something touched the fence.

"and if so, would not Cadosh make more of a point of including it in his statement?"

Possibly, but not necessarily.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn ..

I do hope no one took a fence

What i actually meant , but i dont think it came across ( nothing to do with fences ) was infact , was it audio or visual .. did he mearly hear what sounded like someone touching the fence, or did he actually see the fence shudder .. like i'm sure he would have if he was right there ( and also given the state of the fence)

cheers ..
moonbegger .

[moonbegger]

Funny.

We really must draw the line at some re-enactment! Someone could get hurt.

Hi Curious ,

Yes , especially me .. i do have a fence , but i live eight story's up
so now the fences are crashing in on me , the apples are crashing down on me. Mmm.. should i be getting worried

cheers ,
moonbegger

[Cogidubnus]

Ask yourself: how observant you are on your daily treks to work? How many vehicles do you remember exactly? When you are pulling from your driveway, and wait for a vehicle, in four days can you tell me which vehicle you waited for last Friday or Saturday?

How about last Wednesday, when you reached an intersection, did you get a red or green light? how about the day after that? Do you remember precisely?

Long said she was not paying attention. She did not look back to see where the couple went. They were simply two people she passed on her way to work one day. . . After a lapse of four days, tell me, on your own treks how much do you really remember about which vehicles or people you passed and which day? Do you really believe Long could know?

Honestly, now, can you be positive of what or who you passed 4 days ago?

If you walk in a densely populated area, how many of the people do you specifically recall? How many could you identify?

I'm on auto pilot on my trip to work. What about you?

Hi Curious

Like Mrs Long I walk (just over half a mile in my case) every morning at a regular time (to catch a bus)...been doing so for over 20 years...It takes me just seven minutes and I get used to seeing the same people in the same places most days, and many of them I greet like familiar old friends...Like you though, some mornings I'm on autopilot and it's all fairly automatic...

However, other mornings, if something odd occurs perhaps, or I bump into the local loonie (god forbid 'cos he's a pain!), or if I run late and have to hurry (or if I miss the bus), then I do tend to wake up and notice more...and what's more can recall too - for example I can tell you the local loonie nabbed me last Thursday, a day I was a little late anyway, and pursued me all the way to the bus stop...and I can recall seeing the Jack Russel lady that day (she was also running about 5 minutes late)...but not two toddlers lady with her pushchair, nor Peter from the Nursing Home, nor Marianne the night shift nurse....However the young lady who works in the fashion shop in Chichester was waiting at the bus stop (unusual because Wednesday and Thursday are her days off) and smiled at me in sympathy...

So I'd guess it depends...Mrs Long may've heard the quarter strike and assumed she was running late - so she just might have disengaged autopilot that day...who knows?

As I stated, it's tempting to disregard her, but start dropping the testimony of too many first hand witnesses and where does any of the testimony go? The whole case dissolves...Personally, as regards reliability, I don't much rate Pearly Poll, Richardson, Schwartz or Hutchinson (not to mention Packer, but for gods sake don't tell Tom!)... but I feel most uncomfortable departing cleanly from them without really solid reason. I'd rather note my doubts, file them away, and see what else comes along...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

AC

Hello MB. None taken; else, I would be picketing now. (ugh)

Wish we had an answer about Cadosch. Much difference in the two.

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Hi Dave ,

"As I stated, it's tempting to disregard her, but start dropping the testimony of too many first hand witnesses and where does any of the testimony go? The whole case dissolves...Personally, as regards reliability, I don't much rate Pearly Poll, Richardson, Schwartz or Hutchinson (not to mention Packer, but for gods sake don't tell Tom!)... but I feel most uncomfortable departing cleanly from them without really solid reason. I'd rather note my doubts, file them away, and see what else comes along "

These witnesses are the historical foundations on which so much of the Ripper myth are built , so i totally understand your concern with disregarding them so easily . But so many of them ( including the ones you mention ) are like mud in the water , clouding and distorting our view .. i would like to see the outcome of an experiment where all the witnesses are disregarded , and only the absolute facts are looked at ... my guess is , we would be no nearer to knowing who the ripper was than we are now ... but we would definitely have a clearer picture .

cheers
moonbegger .

[Cogidubnus]

i would like to see the outcome of an experiment where all the witnesses are disregarded , and only the absolute facts are looked at ... my guess is , we would be no nearer to knowing who the ripper was than we are now ... but we would definitely have a clearer picture .

Five to eight mutilated bodies, no clues (unless you get selective and include the medics, who some posters would say aren't always reliable either)...hmmm

Much clearer!

Dave