A photograph of Joseph Lawende in 1899

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Practically nothing in your post addresses the point I was making, namely that it is genuine frontier gibberish to say that you can identify a person as being Jewish by looking at a picture.

You haven't addressed my suggestion to have a reputable historian look at the two wedding photos and give an opinion.

And so far, neither have any others among my critics here.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I would point out that I am the one who has consistently been complaining about the anti-Semitism which infected coverage of the Whitechapel Murders, starting with the march down Hanbury Street, the anti-Jewish graffito, the remark recorded by Godfrey Lushington, the accusations made by Anderson against the Jewish community, Swanson's accusations against Kosminski, Anderson's and Swanson's allegations about an imaginary Jewish witness, Odell's nonsense about a Jewish slaughter man, and the nonsense written here about how the writing on the wall could have been pro-Jewish and the anti-Jewish insult 'Lipski' could have been shouted by a Jew.

That's what I would call dangerous territory.

I never said that every Jewish person in Whitechapel was recognisably Jewish nor that every gentile person was identifiably gentile.

I said that it was obvious to Schwarz and Lawende that the suspects they saw were gentiles, and that it is inconceivable that they had recognised them as Jews, failed to mention the fact to the police, and then suddenly realised at the seaside home that the suspect was Jewish.

And that is how this whole argument started.

I am the one here defending the Jews!

You can ask any historian to adjudicate who is right - I or my critics.

Ask them whether the two communities were together or apart.

Ask them whether people in general in Whitechapel were recognisably gentile or Jewish.

Ask them whether Jews were attacked during the period of the Whitechapel murders and how their attackers knew them to be Jewish.

Ask them whether each of the two photographs were of a Jewish wedding or a gentile wedding.

Practically nothing in your post addresses the point I was making, namely that it is genuine frontier gibberish to say that you can identify a person as being Jewish by looking at a picture.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

This thread is moving into dangerous waters PI.

It is complete and utter nonsense to say that anyone can tell that any person in that photograph was Jewish, although there were some nutters in Germany of the thirties and forties who would disagree with me.

I would point out that I am the one who has consistently been complaining about the anti-Semitism which infected coverage of the Whitechapel Murders, starting with the march down Hanbury Street, the anti-Jewish graffito, the remark recorded by Godfrey Lushington, the accusations made by Anderson against the Jewish community, Swanson's accusations against Kosminski, Anderson's and Swanson's allegations about an imaginary Jewish witness, Odell's nonsense about a Jewish slaughter man, and the nonsense written here about how the writing on the wall could have been pro-Jewish and the anti-Jewish insult 'Lipski' could have been shouted by a Jew.

That's what I would call dangerous territory.

I never said that every Jewish person in Whitechapel was recognisably Jewish nor that every gentile person was identifiably gentile.

I said that it was obvious to Schwarz and Lawende that the suspects they saw were gentiles, and that it is inconceivable that they had recognised them as Jews, failed to mention the fact to the police, and then suddenly realised at the seaside home that the suspect was Jewish.

And that is how this whole argument started.

I am the one here defending the Jews!

You can ask any historian to adjudicate who is right - I or my critics.

Ask them whether the two communities were together or apart.

Ask them whether people in general in Whitechapel were recognisably gentile or Jewish.

Ask them whether Jews were attacked during the period of the Whitechapel murders and how their attackers knew them to be Jewish.

Ask them whether each of the two photographs were of a Jewish wedding or a gentile wedding.

[The Baron]

One thing you are not getting, and that there is a world of difference between saying the GSG incriminates the jews, and saying that the police thought it was designed to incriminate the Jews.


If IT IS incriminating the jews, then bringing this topic will not help your lost in the sea blond pirate.

You could use the argument that the police thought it was designed to incriminate the jew if they knew who the ripper was, or as a defence of the bloody blond pirate theory when WE bring this as an evidence that the ripper was a jew.

All your arguments are very weak, shaky, disintegrated and incoherent, and not helping your pirate at all.


TB

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

If you like, I'll compile a list of your gratuitous insults and post them here.

If muck has been thrown, it was you who started it.

Evidently, you don't like it when someone responds by defending himself.



As for the two wedding photos, I suggest you show them to a historian of that period and ask whether he or she can identify which is a Jewish wedding and which is a gentile wedding.

I predict that however many you ask, you will get the same answer, namely the one I gave, which has given rise to such mockery and ridicule.



As for the writing on the wall: Superintendent Arnold and the Police Commissioner, Sir Charles Warren, were convinced that the writing was anti-Jewish, which it obviously was.

According to Warren, The writing was on the jamb of the open archway or doorway visible to anybody in the street and could not be covered up without danger of the covering been torn off at once.

It is inconceivable that the Jewish residents wouldn't have noticed such a message about them at the entrance to the building where they lived, if it had been there hours before.

Chief Inspector Henry Moore and Sir Robert Anderson, both from Scotland Yard, thought that the graffito was the work of the murderer.^[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulston_Street_graffito

That was, of course, years before Anderson started talking about the murderer being Jewish, which at that time he evidently realised he was not, just as Abberline realised that the brute who shouted Lipski obviously was not Jewish, either.

Scotland Yard [were convinced that] the chalk message was a deliberate subterfuge, designed to incriminate the Jews and throw the police off the track of the real murderer.^[14]

That is quite obvious from the fact that the piece of apron [not the whole apron] of a victim was left next to the writing in order to authenticate the source of the message.

Since we are told that even Kosminski knew some English, how are my critics here going to explain the fact that the Jewish residents of the building failed to erase the message themselves?

There is only one credible explanation: that the message had indeed been left there, with the apron, between 2.20 and 2.55 a.m., by the murderer.




I’ve responded to all of your posts politely but you’re responses are bordering on hysterical.


I intend to post excerpts from our exchanges going right back to the beginning of them.


Then we will see who was polite and who was hysterical.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I was ridiculed for saying that it was generally obvious in Whitechapel in 1888 who was Jewish and who was not.

That wedding photograph illustrates my point.

It would have been obvious to both Schwarz and Lawende whether the man they were describing was a gentile or a Jew.

It is therefore inconceivable that either of them would suddenly have realised that their suspect was a Jew upon seeing him in the Seaside Home.

This thread is moving into dangerous waters PI.

It is complete and utter nonsense to say that anyone can tell that any person in that photograph was Jewish, although there were some nutters in Germany of the thirties and forties who would disagree with me.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Im Still waiting for PI to explain why he thinks the people in his photo look jewish?

I'm still waiting for one of you to take up my challenge.

Show the two uncropped photos to a historian of that period and ask him or her which if any are of a Jewish wedding and which are of a gentile wedding.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

And maybe you could explain away why those two women had light hair

That's a nice close-up.

I suggest you take up my challenge and show it to a reputable historian and see whether he or she agrees with me or you.

[Herlock Sholmes]

[The Baron]

I am sure the man seen by Lawende looked something like this

[The Baron]

"Pioneers in Palestine pose on a sandy plot where they hope to erect a new kibbutz

Those pictured include Avraham Wagner.
Date Circa 1920 - 1929"

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa1148170

Do those people look jewish to you?

TB

[Herlock Sholmes]

I'd associate something like a Pea Coat with a sailor, not that it would've been exclusive to sailors, but combined with a Breton hat maybe, that'd be a reasonable comparison. I'm not seeing how a description of the colour points to it being a sailor specific item? 'Loose fitting jacket'. Doesn't narrow it down much.

I wonder how much the coat contributed to Lawende's "appearance of a sailor", or was it more the hat/ neckerchief?

I’d say that it must have been down to the hat and neckerchief Al. It’s pretty thin ground to nail someone’s occupation too as anyone could have acquired that kind of hat.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Im waiting for his evidence that a ‘salt and pepper’ coat was linked to sailors but he seems to keep forgetting to respond Abby.

I'd associate something like a Pea Coat with a sailor, not that it would've been exclusive to sailors, but combined with a Breton hat maybe, that'd be a reasonable comparison. I'm not seeing how a description of the colour points to it being a sailor specific item? 'Loose fitting jacket'. Doesn't narrow it down much.

I wonder how much the coat contributed to Lawende's "appearance of a sailor", or was it more the hat/ neckerchief?

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

I'm surprised you're a commissioner.
.

The 'ranks' just reflect the number of posts made.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Can anyone guess what all of these people have in common?





You guessed it. They’re all Jewish. How many of these would you instantly recognise as Jews if you didn’t know who any of them were? I’d say none.

Sorry I couldn’t enlarge it. I clicked on ‘large’ and this is what I got. I hate technology.