A photograph of Joseph Lawende in 1899

[The Baron]

Thats what I wrote:

"Do you ever give attention to Who is writing what..

You are mixing different posts from different posters, didn't you notice this?!"


Your respond to that was:

I don't think I have done what you say I have.


And after being proven wrong you responded:

I haven't been proven wrong at all.


For you it would be a tough night for sure, my advice to you would be less material and more attention, that would help you greatly on the way





TB

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You certainly have PI.

10 quotes out of 13 wrongly accredited. You’ve had an hour. Any response?

I have responded elsewhere, but I can't devote a whole evening dealing with this matter.

I will go through all the posts again.

Maybe you're celebrations will prove short-lived.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Now don't say I didin't tell you

Maybe less material next time?!




TB

No wonder you're still a sergeant.

[Elamarna]

Can we positively be sure if those notes were written after 1919?


TB

Given it was being hinted in 1895, that the killer had died, I think we can the idea, that Swanson was refering to AKs actual death


Steve

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Enjoy the last few posts before Johnathon shuts down this train wreck of a thread. It's embarrassing.

So the idea is to close the thread down before the argument about the photographs can be resolved here?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

This is so tiresome.

Anderson and more importantly Swanson ran the investigation, NOT Smith, NOT Reid, NOT Macnaghten and NOT EVEN Abberline.

That you compare Smith, who was the acting head of the city police , who investigated ONE murder with Anderson and Swanson is beyond belief.
Smith is considered unreliable by many, just as you consider Anderson.
The reality is Smith in all probability had a very limited amount of knowledge on the case.

Swanson, ran the investigation, that is not a matter of debate, he was appointed by Warren and stayed with the case for its duration. As you are fond of saying That is a FACT.


Macnaghten, certainly did consider someone called Kosminski a possible suspect. To suggest otherwise is simply incorrect. He did however favour Druitt.

Of course he was not in the police in 1888, during the murders.

None of these can be compared to Swanson.

Swanson does not say the killer died 30 years before Aaron Kosminski died. He simply uses the name Kosminski, you fall into the common fault of assuming Kosminski equals Aaron.

You also ignore the possibility of a mistake.
In Feb 94 Macnaghten said his kosminski was still alive and in an asylum.
Later in 94, Aaron Kosminski is transferred from Colney Hatch to Leavesden.
It's only in early 95 that Anderson and Swanson suggest the killer had died.

Now that's pure speculation, but it's not unreasonable and is based on known facts

I note you do not address the points I raised regarding an anti Semitic investigation.
You dismiss because you believe YOUR opinion is the ONLY viable option .

YOU find this tiresome?

It's one thing to say that Anderson and Swanson may have been more senior than someone else.

It's quite another thing to explain how no-one else 'knew' the Polish Jew / Kosminski was the murderer.

Smith actually stated that Anderson did not unmask the murderer.

You do not deal with that point.

You say he didn't know much, but he made a serious accusation.

To suggest that Abberline wouldn't have known about the murderer having been unmasked is far-fetched, as he himself said years later.

He was quite definite that no-one at Scotland Yard knew of the identification of anyone as the murderer.

Instead of addressing the inherent unlikelihood of the Anderson / Swanson story being true, you say it's tiresome to read my arguments.

That's not a credible position.

[The Baron]

Well we have 3 options TB

1. Kosminski wasn't Aaron. And so the died soon after may well be correct.

2. Somehow the transfer got miscomunicated as died.( we must of course realise that the family had Aaron committed not the Police, and I suggest the police only kept a distance watch on him. )

3. Anderson and Swanson were mistaken in their belief. It would be wrong not to accept that possibility. However, I consider they seriously believed they had their man.


Steve

Can we positively be sure if those notes were written before or after 1919?


TB

[The Baron]

Now don't say I didin't tell you

Maybe less material next time?!




TB

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

[QUOTE=Herlock Sholmes;n800057]


[/QUOT


I don't know what you're making such a fuss about: when going through the comments posted by you, Pontius2000, and The Baron, they are all equally deplorable.

I was going through a great deal of material and was intending to write to each of you separately, and obviously there was a mix-up.

That hardly makes Pontius2000's false accusations somehow all right.

None of the content nor any of the arguments I set down are invalidated by the mix-up you're celebrating.

They all stand.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You have been proved WRONG

It will be a tough night for you


TB

I haven't been proven wrong at all.

I sent perfectly correctly-quoted excerpts but sent them to the wrong person by mistake, due to handling too much material.

It could be a hard night for you, though.

Here's what you wrote (my comments in bold) :


# 253

That just shows your ignorance

# 258

when you try to disprove Kosminski on the base of his appearance as a recognisable jew or that he was not 'blond' enough, without studying the case or even trying to know how his family looked like, then it is ignorance on your side.

If you mean 'Ignorance' is an insult, then think again


# 260

I am not going to withdraw anything I said


# 326

"The man in appearance strongly resembled the individual seen by the City PC near Mitre Square"


However Kosminski looked like, he was identified, and he strongly resembled the individual seen by the City PC.


# 352

Robert Sagar wrote this:

"At 1:45 a. m. she was dead. A police officer met a well dressed man of Jewish appearance coming out of the court. Continuing on his patrol he came across the woman's body. He blew his whistle,..."


# 354

Anderson, when compiling his memoirs, forgot to mention the name of the police constable who helped prove the murderer was a Jew?

And when all hell let loose, and Anderson was being condemned for his comments about the Jews and the alleged Jewish murderer, all he had to do was refer his critics to the identification made by the City Police constable.

But he did not!


# 355

The burden of proof is on you to show us why Kosminski couldn't have looked like a sailor, or couldn't have had a fair complexion.

# 363

You live in your own world, full of blond sailors and delirious fabricators head police officers..

# 379

Pc Smith saw Stride with a man about 30 minutes before she was murdered.

Lawende saw Eddowes with a man about 3 minutes before she was murdered.


Not much of a contest.


The 25 minutes turned to 30 minutes

The 10 minutes turned to 3 minutes

How about you start by reading the basic information of the case first?




# 383


I really do not know how you could make such a basic mistake about the evidence.

Having made such a bad mistake, you then say that I am the one of us two who doesn't know what he's talking about.


Lawende's sighting took place at 1.35.

Pc Watkins found the body at 1.44.

I assumed that the murderer started to leave the square at 1.42.

It is difficult to believe that he murdered the woman, mutilated her, nicked her face with his knife, cut off part of her apron, wiped his knife on the apron, put the knife away, and put the apron somewhere in his clothing, in less than four minutes.

That gives a time of death of about 1.38.

1.38 a.m. minus 1.35 a.m. equals three minutes, which is what I wrote.

Your figure of 10 minutes is plainly impossible, as it would mean that Eddowes was murdered after Watkins found her body - a logical impossibility.






# 386

Pc Watkins found the body at 1.44

Wrong, he found the body at 1.45




# 391

Here is what Pc Watkins testified:


I was continually patrolling my beat from ten o'clock up to half-past one. I noticed nothing unusual up till 1.44, when I saw the body.


He said 1.44 - not 1.45, as you claim he said





You accused me of being ignorant, without any justification - simply that I had failed to recognise a photograph.

You then repeated the accusation and refused to withdraw it.


You then claimed that I didn't read basic facts, alleging my 3-minute timing of the murder after the sighting by Lawende was wrong and should have been 10 minutes.

It was you were wrong because 10 minutes was a logical as well as physical impossibility.

You then claimed I was wrong about the 1.44 timing, but I quoted Watkins' testimony proving I was right.


You're the one who should be having a difficult night because in addition to being wrong both times, you proved what a nasty piece of work you are by saying I'm ignorant.

And for someone who is so scrupulous about basic facts, you shouldn't be repeating as if it were true Sagar's completely unsubstantiated story which if it had been true would have been cited by Anderson when he was attacked following publication of his memoirs.

[Elamarna]

And if Swanson wrote these notes after Kosminski had died, then the only mistake he made was the word 'shortly'


TB

Well we have 3 options TB

1. Kosminski wasn't Aaron. And so the died soon after may well be correct.

2. Somehow the transfer got miscomunicated as died.( we must of course realise that the family had Aaron committed not the Police, and I suggest the police only kept a distance watch on him. )

3. Anderson and Swanson were mistaken in their belief. It would be wrong not to accept that possibility. However, I consider they seriously believed they had their man.


Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

I don't think I have done what you say I have.

I haven't dealt with the history of your posts to me yet and didn't include any of those.

Sorry if I can't reach the standard you yourself aspire to, but at least I can spell that word correctly.

You certainly have PI.

10 quotes out of 13 wrongly accredited. You’ve had an hour. Any response?

[The Baron]

You also ignore the possibility of a mistake.
In Feb 94 Macnaghten said his kosminski was still alive and in an asylum.
Later in 94, Aaron Kosminski is transferred from Colney Hatch to Leavesden.
It's only in early 95 that Anderson and Swanson suggest the killer had died.

And if Swanson wrote these notes after Kosminski had died, then the only mistake he made was the word 'shortly'


TB

[Elamarna]

You write:


... the police(Anderson and Swanson) ...




The police were much more than just Anderson and Swanson.


Sir Henry Smith practically accused Anderson of making up his Polish Jewish suspect, declared that Anderson had never identified the murderer, and believed, as did Inspector Reid, that the murderer was a gentile.

Abberline and MacNaghten evidently did not believe the Polish Jew story, either, neither believing that the murderer was even Jewish.


The fact that Swanson wrote that Kosminski died about 30 years earlier than he did should alert you to the possibility that the Kosminski / Polish Jew story is based on the death of Druitt soon after the murders ended and not on any real evidence that Kosminski was the murderer.

It was a fantasy.

This is so tiresome.

Anderson and more importantly Swanson ran the investigation, NOT Smith, NOT Reid, NOT Macnaghten and NOT EVEN Abberline.

That you compare Smith, who was the acting head of the city police , who investigated ONE murder with Anderson and Swanson is beyond belief.
Smith is considered unreliable by many, just as you consider Anderson.
The reality is Smith in all probability had a very limited amount of knowledge on the case.

Swanson, ran the investigation, that is not a matter of debate, he was appointed by Warren and stayed with the case for its duration. As you are fond of saying That is a FACT.


Macnaghten, certainly did consider someone called Kosminski a possible suspect. To suggest otherwise is simply incorrect. He did however favour Druitt.

Of course he was not in the police in 1888, during the murders.

None of these can be compared to Swanson.

Swanson does not say the killer died 30 years before Aaron Kosminski died. He simply uses the name Kosminski, you fall into the common fault of assuming Kosminski equals Aaron.

You also ignore the possibility of a mistake.
In Feb 94 Macnaghten said his kosminski was still alive and in an asylum.
Later in 94, Aaron Kosminski is transferred from Colney Hatch to Leavesden.
It's only in early 95 that Anderson and Swanson suggest the killer had died.

Now that's pure speculation, but it's not unreasonable and is based on known facts

I note you do not address the points I raised regarding an anti Semitic investigation.
You dismiss because you believe YOUR opinion is the ONLY viable option .

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Enjoy the last few posts before Johnathon shuts down this train wreck of a thread. It's embarrassing.