A photograph of Joseph Lawende in 1899

[Herlock Sholmes]

Im Still waiting for PI to explain why he thinks the people in his photo look jewish?

Im waiting for his evidence that a ‘salt and pepper’ coat was linked to sailors but he seems to keep forgetting to respond Abby.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The guy in the picture doesn’t look particularly Jewish (maybe slightly?) and would anyone be able to tell anyway from across a road in less that ideal lighting. And let’s not forget, Lawende said that he wouldn’t have been able to ID the man so he certainly didn’t pay close attention to his face. This is obvious stuff.

Could the man seen with Eddowes have been Jewish? Of course he could. It doesn’t mean that he was of course but he certainly could have been.

[The Baron]

And maybe you could explain away why those two women had light hair

[Herlock Sholmes]

You're writing total nonsense.

I never mentioned a sailor.

I don't make 'obviously fallacious statements.'

Any historian will agree with me about those two photographs and tell you that you are wrong.

Why don't you ask one and make a fool of yourself?


There is general agreement that the writing on the wall was anti-Jewish and was written by the murderer.

Again this is simply untrue. Incorrect assumption after incorrect assumption. Here’s another poll for you to misread. 61.46% felt that it wasn’t written by the killer.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...oll#post716107

Will you admit to being wrong on this point? Well you couldn’t bring yourself to admit to being wrong about the coat so I doubt it.

That's why it was erased and, although there was disagreement with Warren's action, no-one argued with him that the message was directed at the Jews.

What has this got to do with your assertion that all Jews looked obviously Jewish? Nothing.

Saying so does not amount to an assumption, as you claim.

I'm surprised you're a commissioner.

Your comments are among the least sensible I've come across online, and that includes Edward Butler/Stow.

For someone who has spent most of his posting time whining about the way people interact with you you’re certainly not averse to a few insults are you? This is simple hypocrisy. Are you so unaware of yourself that you don’t realise that you’re doing it?

……

For your education (because, and here’s yet another thing that you’ve got wrong) I’m a ‘commissioner’ simply due to number of posts. ‘Rank’ changes the more posts you make. Everyone becomes a commissioner eventually if they make enough posts.

……….


Your statement implying that all Jews look Jewish is simply wrong. Demonstrably wrong. Some Jews look Jewish but some don’t. Open your eyes, remove your blinkers, and look at the 3 men in that photograph. Lawende himself doesn’t look particularly Jewish. The man in the centre certainly looks more Jewish. The man on the left doesn’t look remotely Jewish.

It is an obvious, childishly simple statement of fact that not all Jews looked Jewish. And if you also deny the very obvious possibility that someone who may have looked Jewish seen closer up, might not have stood out as Jewish from a distance, or in poor light, then you really are beyond hope.

…..

I’ve responded to all of your posts politely but you’re responses are bordering on hysterical. You really do need to get a grip PI. On every thread that you’ve posted on you’ve spent most of your time whining whilst insulting others.

Why don’t you just stick to the topic at hand? Listen to what other people say and don’t assume that you’re always right.

……..

Perhaps for a second you might climb off your high horse and respond. On the other thread I asked you 4 times to provide evidence that a salt and pepper coat was one that was known to have been worn by sailors. You refused even to respond. I can only assume that there is no evidence for this or you would have gloatingly posted it. So…..this was an assumption made by yourself so that you could add false weight to your sailor theory. Most posters would have had the integrity to have responded by admitting that they were wrong. Clearly that doesn’t apply to you does it?

[The Baron]

And to explain why he thinks those people from the gentile wedding photo look not jewish

[Abby Normal]

Im Still waiting for PI to explain why he thinks the people in his photo look jewish?

[The Baron]

Still , there is no answer from the 'Blond Sailor' party why it is IMPOSSIBLE for a drunk and schizophrenic murderer to shout Lipski to a fellow jew.

They are implying that

- a murderer
- a drunk
- a schizophrenic

Person , would have behaved just like any other normal, not a murderer, not drunk, not schizophrenic jew, and wouldn't have shouted Lipski against a fellow interrupter jew.

And they claim they are using common sense and logical deduction.

Till now we were able to destroy every 'deduction' they arrived at, and the lonely 'Blond Sailor' has lost his way in the sea and got hunted by the sharks.


TB

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You persist in taking things personally. No one is in denial of anything. You really need to wise up and stop allowing this sailor obsession to lead you into making obviously fallacious statements.

You're writing total nonsense.

I never mentioned a sailor.

I don't make 'obviously fallacious statements.'

Any historian will agree with me about those two photographs and tell you that you are wrong.

Why don't you ask one and make a fool of yourself?

There is general agreement that the writing on the wall was anti-Jewish and was written by the murderer.

That's why it was erased and, although there was disagreement with Warren's action, no-one argued with him that the message was directed at the Jews.

Saying so does not amount to an assumption, as you claim.

I'm surprised you're a commissioner.

Your comments are among the least sensible I've come across online, and that includes Edward Butler/Stow.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You're in denial of the obvious.

Ask any historian and he or she will back me up.

You're just disagreeing for the sake of it.

Thats just a random, meaningless statement. I’ll just go next door and ask the historian that lives there shall I? Come on. Looking at a photograph of Lawende tells us that he didn’t look Jewish. Bobby Fischer was Jewish, Woody Allen is Jewish, Einstein was Jewish, Nathan Rothschild was Jewish. Jerry Lewis was Jewish. None of these looked Jewish.

If what you were claiming were true, Jews could not have been attacked in Whitechapel in reaction to the murders, because the anti-Semites wouldn't have known how to recognise them.

Is this a serious comment? Shops with Jewish names over them, streets or areas known to have been inhabited by Jews.

If the murderer couldn't have recognised Jewish people, how would he have known which building in which to leave the bloody piece of apron and the accusation against the Jews?

Another assumption. Many people don’t believe that the GSG was written by the ripper.

The suggestion that the man who attacked Stride and shouted an anti-Semitic insult was Jewish is anachronistic and belongs in the prejudice of the century before last, along with the ludicrous claim that the murderer was paying the Jews a compliment.

I am simply pointing out historical facts.

No you’re not. You’re projecting your own bias onto issues.

There were two separate communities in Whitechapel at that time.

Books on the subject do not show one homogeneous population in which Jews and gentiles were indistinguishable.

What you're writing puts this forum at risk of becoming a laughing stock.

You persist in taking things personally. No one is in denial of anything. You really need to wise up and stop allowing this sailor obsession to lead you into making obviously fallacious statements.

[The Baron]

Everything we know about Whitechapel in 1888 suggests that you are wrong and I am right.

And everything Anderson, Swanson, Macnaghten, Sagar, Cox knew about Whitechapel in 1888 suggests that you are wrong and I am right.


TB

[The Baron]

I said the man who assaulted Stride was drunk.

And wasn't the man who assulted Stride the same man who shouted LIPSKI?!



You didn't answer the question, why is it impossible for a drunk and mentally sick person to shout Lipski to a fellow jew?

You understand the simple question, don't you..


TB

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You are on record here saying Kosminski was religious and the man with Stride was DRUNK.

Now a person would say ANYTHING while being drunk, your drunk ripper even killed two women that night, so why is it IMPOSSIBLE then for a drunk jewish and mentally ill murderer to call another interrupter jew 'lipski' ?


TB

I didn't say the Whitechapel Murderer was drunk.

I said the man who assaulted Stride was drunk.

Again and again on this forum, some far-fetched notion is proposed on the ground that it wouldn't have been impossible.

Everything we know about Whitechapel in 1888 suggests that you are wrong and I am right.

It was gentiles who shouted 'Lipski' at Jews.

What you're suggesting is like saying that Jews were shouting 'Jude' at Jews in Germany during Kristallnacht in 1938.

[The Baron]

You are on record here saying Kosminski was religious and the man with Stride was DRUNK.

Now a person would say ANYTHING while being drunk, your drunk ripper even killed two women that night, so why is it IMPOSSIBLE then for a drunk jewish and mentally ill murderer to call another interrupter jew 'lipski' ?


TB

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You're in denial of the obvious.

Ask any historian and he or she will back me up.

You're just disagreeing for the sake of it.

If what you were claiming were true, Jews could not have been attacked in Whitechapel in reaction to the murders, because the anti-Semites wouldn't have known how to recognise them.

If the murderer couldn't have recognised Jewish people, how would he have known which building in which to leave the bloody piece of apron and the accusation against the Jews?

The suggestion that the man who attacked Stride and shouted an anti-Semitic insult was Jewish is anachronistic and belongs in the prejudice of the century before last, along with the ludicrous claim that the murderer was paying the Jews a compliment.

I am simply pointing out historical facts.

There were two separate communities in Whitechapel at that time.

Books on the subject do not show one homogeneous population in which Jews and gentiles were indistinguishable.

What you're writing puts this forum at risk of becoming a laughing stock.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There’s nothing that makes them ‘different’ and it certainly isn’t obvious. The people in the Jewish photo look more affluent and some of the girls have what might be called a Jewish appearance and possibly the man in the centre but it doesn’t stand out. Look at the man on the left….how does he look remotely Jewish? Or Lawende himself for that matter. The man that Lawende and co saw might easily have been Jewish for all that we know, especially considering that he didn’t look that closely at his face….hence his inability to recognise him again. Unless he was dressed as a Rabbi or he was serenading Kate with a rousing version of Hava Nagila I fail to see why his being Jewish should have stood out?

On another point Im also not convinced that a Jew couldn't have called another Jew, ‘Lipski’. Why not? It was based on the fact that Israel Lipski was a murderer (a Jewish one, yes) and so a bad person. Would it be any different if an American had insulted another American by calling him Dr. Crippen for example. If a Gentile had said it then it would be considered anti-Semitic but from a fellow Jew? Wouldn’t he just be calling him a bad person…a murderer? I’m not saying that this happened but it’s something that I’ve long considered but never got around to bringing it up.