torso maps

[RockySullivan]

Do you know how to cut meat? Then you, too, can remove a uterus if you put your mind to it. Who knows, you might even do it more successfully and consistently than Jack the Ripper, whose mileage varied between victims.

No I don't know how to cut meat. And the idea that just cause someone cut meat, they could remove the uterus in minutes under insane pressure and risk of death in a dark street with little to no light. Sounds plausible

[Herlock Sholmes]

um Kelly anyone?

In every other post I’ve added - apart from Kelly. I didn’t think that I needed to keep saying it as I assume that everyone on here is fully aware that Kelly was killed indoors.

Do you think that the ripper killed Kelly because she had her own room ? A fact which might have displayed different thinking on the killers part. That he could have seen her in the street and thought ‘ah, at last, a prostitute with her own room.’ Or is it more likely that it was just by chance that he found a victim with a room and that they weren’t too far from it? Therefore it was purely by chance and not by plan that he killed Kelly indoors. Which does nothing to remove Kelly from the series.

[RockySullivan]

In every other post I’ve added - apart from Kelly. I didn’t think that I needed to keep saying it as I assume that everyone on here is fully aware that Kelly was killed indoors.

Do you think that the ripper killed Kelly because she had her own room ? A fact which might have displayed different thinking on the killers part. That he could have seen her in the street and thought ‘ah, at last, a prostitute with her own room.’ Or is it more likely that it was just by chance that he found a victim with a room and that they weren’t too far from it? Therefore it was purely by chance and not by plan that he killed Kelly indoors. Which does nothing to remove Kelly from the series.

Why would the killer kill Kelly in the street if he could kill her in her room and then not have to dismember her to get rid of the body?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Bookmakers, barrel makers and surgeons. We are talking about an aberration, not a profession mr sholmes.

edit: seriously that's your argument? 2 barrel makers could operate a loom?

No we are talking about possibilities and likelihood’s.

You are, in essence, saying that as two murders had a similarity and that they occurred in the same city within a few years or months of each other then they must have been committed by the same man. This is false. They could have been committed by different men. Any obsessive level of confidence in this is misplaced whatever spin you place on it.

Because of any similarities in injuries inflicted could they have been committed by the same man - yes....they could.

Because of any similarities in injuries inflicted could they have been committed by different men - yes they could.

So what can we do? We can look at the other facts and circumstances of the case. And what do we find? Massive differences.

You decided to ignore the second definite points in favour of the first debated ones.

And why is that?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Why would the killer kill Kelly in the street if he could kill her in her room and then not have to dismember her to get rid of the body?

Is that a real question?

He had no intention of dismembering her to get rid of the body because that’s not what the Ripper did. If the killer had picked up Kelly a distance from Dorset Street I’ve no doubt that he would have killed her in the street. But by chance she had a room so he took advantage of the fact. I’ll say it again, he couldn’t have known beforehand that Kelly had a room.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hello friend

but he removed the sexual organs of two of them-the uterus. and similar with Jackson.

I do agree with you that I think the torso man and the ripper could had some kind of medical training-if not surgery then at least anatomy.


Debs has been doing research that posited the idea that Jackson could have died as a result of a back street doctor accidently killing her-through poisoning or something -trying to abort her pregnancy. but not surgically.


of course that dosnt negate he killed the other torso victims or even the ripper victims. I think its an interesting avenue to explore.

Hi Abby,

Any research done by Debs or any other researcher is worthwhile and it’s an interesting avenue. Surely though, if her research increases the likelihood that Jackson was killed during a backstreet operation, this would pretty much be a nail in the coffin for the one killer theory?

[RockySullivan]

Is that a real question?

He had no intention of dismembering her to get rid of the body because that’s not what the Ripper did. If the killer had picked up Kelly a distance from Dorset Street I’ve no doubt that he would have killed her in the street. But by chance she had a room so he took advantage of the fact. I’ll say it again, he couldn’t have known beforehand that Kelly had a room.

couldn't?

[Herlock Sholmes]

couldn't?

Unless he knew Kelly beforehand, and I don’t think we have any evidence to think that, I don’t see how he could have known until he first spoke to her.

[RockySullivan]

Unless he knew Kelly beforehand, and I don’t think we have any evidence to think that, I don’t see how he could have known until he first spoke to her.

And you have the gallbladder to lecture us about assumptions? You don't think it's likely the ripper planned this murder atleast to the degree he felt confident he wouldnt be disturbed?

[Herlock Sholmes]

And you have the gallbladder to lecture us about assumptions? You don't think it's likely the ripper planned this murder atleast to the degree he felt confident he wouldnt be disturbed?

I don’t ‘lecture’ anyone.

As he didn’t appear to pre-plan any of his other murders I have little reason to believe that he would have done it with Kelly.

And if he did ‘plan’ so that he wouldn’t be disturbed are you suggesting that he went to various prostitutes asking if they had a room until he found one that did?

[RockySullivan]

I don’t ‘lecture’ anyone.

As he didn’t appear to pre-plan any of his other murders I have little reason to believe that he would have done it with Kelly.

And if he did ‘plan’ so that he wouldn’t be disturbed are you suggesting that he went to various prostitutes asking if they had a room until he found one that did?

No I'm suggesting the killer stalked 13 Miller's court or didn't have to.

[Sam Flynn]

but he removed the sexual organs of two of them-the uterus.

Three of them: Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly... and they each had other abdominal organs removed, too. Unlike Jackson.

and similar with Jackson.

As already noted, Jackson was 7 months pregnant and her foetus was cut out along with her womb. The desire to extract the baby might have been the reason for the removal of her uterus, rather than the latter being targeted as an end in itself.

[RockySullivan]

Three of them: Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly... and they each had other abdominal organs removed, too. Unlike Jackson.
As already noted, Jackson was 7 months pregnant and her foetus was cut out along with her womb. The desire to extract the baby might have been the reason for the removal of her uterus, rather than the latter being targeted as an end in itself.

Both series of murders reveal a specialized knowledge. What is your excuse for the 15 inch cut from pubes to sternum on the pinchin torso?

[Herlock Sholmes]

No I'm suggesting the killer stalked 13 Miller's court or didn't have to.

I can only ‘assume’ that you believe that Kelly was killed by either Hutchinson or Barnett? Unproven suspects like all others. Neither of them suspected by the police at the time.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Both series of murders reveal a specialized knowledge. What is your excuse for the 15 inch cut from pubes to sternum on the pinchin torso?

Has it been accepted that both series of murders required specialised knowledge? Or is that debated?