torso maps

[protohistorian]

What, for like maps of torso findings and stuff! Dave

[protohistorian]

1873

Maximum width is 10.46 miles. Dave

[protohistorian]

1889

Note the well inland placing. Maximum width 4.77 miles. Dave

[Trevor Marriott]

Note the well inland placing. Maximum width 4.77 miles. Dave

I would not get to carried away in the beleif that these bodies found were murder victims.

I refer back to The antaomy Act 1832 and also the post recently by Phil Carter titled The Coroners theory. The simple explanation for these torsos and body parts turning up is that if a body had been purchased or obtained for research then it was the responiblilty of the subsequnt owner to arrange for a proper burial.

That would no doubt have incurred extra costs so the most simple way would to have been to wrap it up and dump it in the thames or nearby, thats why the bodies referred to all turned up in those locations.

[protohistorian]

They are maps Treveor. The why is irrelevant, the where is the thing. Dave

[Trevor Marriott]

They are maps Treveor. The why is irrelevant, the where is the thing. Dave

I am sorry but you logic is baffling me -------- again !

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Trevor ,
But your theory doesn"t in any way explain the case of Elizabeth Jackson.
Elizabeth disappeared suddenly after being in recent contact with her sister and mother in Chelsea.She was pregnant and had almost reached full term and body parts were found in Battersea Park and across the river ,wrapped as a parcel and thrown over a high wall into a garden there .
The time line doesnt fit for any kind of natural death that was followed by the purchase of a corpse for medical reasons.
Best,
Norma

[Debra A]

Absolutely, Norma!
Trevor, if this was the case wouldn't you expect at least one of the other torsos to have showed a cause of death, after the careful examination of the internal organs that were conducted? How many perfectly healthy women aged 25 to 45 were dropping dead in London? Does a medical specimen come complete with wardrobe of their own and how come there were no male, elderly or very young bodies found?


Sorry for interupting the thread, Dave...I will check the maps later when I've got my geography head on. Thanks very much for attempting to map them.

[protohistorian]

Thai ensure+casebook+sleep=bizzaro dreams

So last night before my sleep I downed my Thai ensure ( Thai because I am cheap and ensure cause I am almost 40) and i had the most bizarre dream. I guess Thai ensure does not agree with me. Anyhow I had a dream that after the vote for the 1832 anatomy act a dissenter yelled out, "mark my words, in 41 years there will be faces washing up in limehouse!!"

and so it was.....
anatomy act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomy_Act_1832
find description http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=111126

and because it wouldn't be a Dave post without one, a filthy map. Dave

No worries Debra, sorry it took so long to get around to it.

[Trevor Marriott]

Absolutely, Norma!
Trevor, if this was the case wouldn't you expect at least one of the other torsos to have showed a cause of death, after the careful examination of the internal organs that were conducted? How many perfectly healthy women aged 25 to 45 were dropping dead in London? Does a medical specimen come complete with wardrobe of their own and how come there were no male, elderly or very young bodies found?


Sorry for interupting the thread, Dave...I will check the maps later when I've got my geography head on. Thanks very much for attempting to map them.

I never suggested every single one merely offering an alternative view. Sadly alternative views seem to be what people dont want to hear.

Dont forget the mortality rate was high and there were many persons within those age parameters dying of various causes at that time. Phnemonia or how ever you spell it wouldnt show any outward symptons of death and not all would have been made the subject of post mortems as is still the case today.

[Debra A]

I never suggested every single one merely offering an alternative view. Sadly alternative views seem to be what people dont want to hear.

Dont forget the mortality rate was high and there were many persons within those age parameters dying of various causes at that time. Phnemonia or how ever you spell it wouldnt show any outward symptons of death and not all would have been made the subject of post mortems as is still the case today.

Alternative views are always welcomed if they are relevant.

But we are talking specifically here of the four torso murders, the finding of the remains mapped here by protohistorian.
These were all females between the ages of 25 and 45, all dismembered and found between 1887 and 1889. Detailed post mortem notes, including examination of remaining internal organs were all done on these four. I'd expect doctors to be able to determine the cause of death of at least one of these women if they had died from disease in the workhouse or whatever and their bodies given over as anatomical specimens. No diseased organs were found in any of the cases to account for cause of death.

Perhaps other body parts found were dumped for the reasons you state.There was another arm found at the time of the 1888 case and a thigh in the 1887 case, but no one is proposing these as victims.

No other dismembered corpses were found in the Thames or surrounding areas in this particular time period, why just these four women?

[Trevor Marriott]

I never suggested every single one merely offering an alternative view. Sadly alternative views seem to be what people dont want to hear.

Dont forget the mortality rate was high and there were many persons within those age parameters dying of various causes at that time. Phnemonia or how ever you spell it wouldnt show any outward symptons of death and not all would have been made the subject of post mortems as is still the case today.

Must not also forget suicides !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Debra A]

Note the well inland placing. Maximum width 4.77 miles. Dave

Dave, what are the two inland finds marked on the left and right ( I suppose that should be East and West?) the map is a bit too small for me to make it out. Thanks

[protohistorian]

1889 map far right plot ( most east) is pinchin st. Far left (west) is an Elibeth Jackson limb found $ June," Early on Tuesday morning the 4th June 1889, reports began to be circulated about the gruesome discovery of human remains along two separate parts of the Thames. Three boys bathing near the Battersea park side of Albert Bridge had noticed a strange object being nudged by the tide against the muddy foreshore. On investigating the object, the boys were horrified to discover it was a human limb, wrapped in white cloth .The boys wrapped the limb up again and took it straight to the police. The local police immediately alerted Scotland Yard and the assistant divisional surgeon for Battersea, Dr. Kempster. The limb was examined by Dr Kempster who declared it to be a portion of a human thigh from hip to knee; his opinion was that the limb had not been in the water above 24 hours. The white cloth the limb was wrapped in was found to be a portion of an item of ladies underclothing, the waistband of which had the name L.E. Fisher written along it. Fastened to another portion of the material was a piece of tweed seemingly torn from the right breast area of a lady's long Ulster coat."
Quote is fromDebra A's paper and can be found in original context here.

http://www.casebook.org/victims/jackson.html

The well inland is the piece of Jackson in Battersea park, not w whole torso. Dave

[Debra A]

1889 map far right plot ( most east) is pinchin st. Far left (west) is an Elibeth Jackson limb found $ June," Early on Tuesday morning the 4th June 1889, reports began to be circulated about the gruesome discovery of human remains along two separate parts of the Thames. Three boys bathing near the Battersea park side of Albert Bridge had noticed a strange object being nudged by the tide against the muddy foreshore. On investigating the object, the boys were horrified to discover it was a human limb, wrapped in white cloth .The boys wrapped the limb up again and took it straight to the police. The local police immediately alerted Scotland Yard and the assistant divisional surgeon for Battersea, Dr. Kempster. The limb was examined by Dr Kempster who declared it to be a portion of a human thigh from hip to knee; his opinion was that the limb had not been in the water above 24 hours. The white cloth the limb was wrapped in was found to be a portion of an item of ladies underclothing, the waistband of which had the name L.E. Fisher written along it. Fastened to another portion of the material was a piece of tweed seemingly torn from the right breast area of a lady's long Ulster coat."
Quote is fromDebra A's paper and can be found in original context here.

http://www.casebook.org/victims/jackson.html

The well inland is the piece of Jackson in Battersea park, not w whole torso. Dave

Cheers Dave,
It didn't click that you'd plotted Pinchin St and EJ together.
I did get my shredded wheat on the wrong side there didn't I?
Thanks