torso maps

[Trevor Marriott]

Typical trevor. Right in with the insults and not a shred of subject matter in response.

If you think that the truth is an insult, then you are seriously in need of help

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Herlock Sholmes]

Twisted again - I asked you to go away if you have nothing factual to bring to the debate. For the longest, you have centred on me instead of on the case, accusing me of all sorts of things and telling me that this is allowed since I myself am the father of all bad blood which you categorically are. And when I showed you that this was not so, but instead you started out on this thread by saying that you could hear me grind my teeth, accompanied by a laughing smiley, you said that I need to understand humour because, as ever, I was being truthful in that the comment was made in humour and not as an insult so again, I was right.

But you seemingly don´t see the "humour" of being called either ignorant or biased again you called me ignorant and worse way before I said anything detrimental about you - and so I was reacting and not initiating instead you wet your pants when you hear it and shake with indignation. And use it as an excuse to insult me in all sorts of manners. Only after you have insulted me. It just doesn’t register with you does it Fish.

In short: if you can dish it out, then prepare to take it yourself.

Twisting the facts.

Now, once more: discuss the case or do something else, please. Note the "please", repeated from the former post. It is a courtesy, added to a wish for a better discussion than the one you have offered for the longest now. Try to focus on the case. Whether I am deluded or not and whether you are the best judge of that is neither here nor there - the case, please, and nothing but the case. If you cannot get me off hyour mind, I can post you a signed photo of me to hang on your wall, but that´s as far as I am willing to stretch.

I have discussed the case. Unlike you I have made no claims knowing everything. But it becomes wearying when virtually every post or opinion from me or gets condescension, mockery or insults then you mount your high horse to bleat when I respond in kind. You do it on here now and you did it in the Lechmere threads and I wasn’t the only one that tired of it. But Fish is never at fault. It’s always others.

I’ll comply with your ‘order’ to leave the thread. It will allow you the chance of a further insult without response. I’ll leave the ‘debate’ to those with more patience that I have to be spoken down to by someone who sees no fault in himself. I post on 4 other forums, with hundreds of people, having sometimes quite strident debates but they never descend to these kind of attitudes. I know that you don’t like coincidences but that’s a very informative one. Only you Fish. Only you.

[Abby Normal]

Take the rose tinted glasses of it’s there for all to see but there is that saying “there is none so blind as they that cannot see” or those that don’t want to see

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Typical trevor. Right in with the insults and not a shred of subject matter in response.

[Abby Normal]

On the contrary - if we take the lower bounds or even the midpoints, then all the victims so far mentioned were significantly younger than the Ripper victims, apart from Kelly. At the very worst, the torso victims were thirty-somethings, as opposed to forty-somethings like the majority of the C5.

If true. It could point to the torso killer targeting child bearing women. Which hurts my leaning to them being the same man of course but i admit the truth even if it hurts my case. This is an interesting angle.

[Abby Normal]

To fit the Ripper "agenda", they need to be somewhere between twenty-something and forty-something. And who knows if he would have turned fiteen or fifty down, given the opportunity?

It´s a useless angle to make decisions from.

What we know about victimology is that the torso killer was not alien to the idea of killing prostitutes. That is instead a very useful thing to know.

All very easy.

I agree that it would be nice to know whether the rest of the torso victims were prostitutes, but what we have is what we have. And what we have is what we go on. Generally speaking, a prostitute is much more likely to have no relatives and/or friends searching for her than a non-prostitute, so that parameter is in place in the torso cases.

Hi fish
I would say another clue to them being unfortunates is the fact the were never ided. As in no one cared enough about them to notice them missing, the transient nature of there lifestyle and the stigma attached to the profession.

[Trevor Marriott]

If he cannot see what you are talking about, then maybe you should help him out and explain it, Trevor?

Its not going to happen !

I am suffering from what called repetition syndrome, caused by having to keep repeating the same things over again and again on this topic

So once more is a step to far.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fisherman]

What that illustrates perfectly is the sense of humour bypass that you’ve obviously had. There was nothing at all nasty in that as anyone can see. I was simply pointing out that it was a statement that you wouldn’t agree with. Anyone that can take offence at that, well it requires no further comment.

And the arrogance surfaces, Fish owns the field and tells me to go away.

Twisted again - I asked you to go away if you have nothing factual to bring to the debate. For the longest, you have centred on me instead of on the case, accusing me of all sorts of things and telling me that this is allowed since I myself am the father of all bad blood. And when I showed you that this was not so, but instead you started out on this thread by saying that you could hear me grind my teeth, accompanied by a laughing smiley, you said that I need to understand humour.

But you seemingly don´t see the "humour" of being called either ignorant or biased - instead you wet your pants when you hear it and shake with indignation. And use it as an excuse to insult me in all sorts of manners.

In short: if you can dish it out, then prepare to take it yourself.

Now, once more: discuss the case or do something else, please. Note the "please", repeated from the former post. It is a courtesy, added to a wish for a better discussion than the one you have offered for the longest now. Try to focus on the case. Whether I am deluded or not and whether you are the best judge of that is neither here nor there - the case, please, and nothing but the case. If you cannot get me off hyour mind, I can post you a signed photo of me to hang on your wall, but that´s as far as I am willing to stretch.

[Herlock Sholmes]

What that illustrates perfectly is the sense of humour bypass that you’ve obviously had. There was nothing at all nasty in that as anyone can see. I was simply pointing out that it was a statement that you wouldn’t agree with. Anyone that can take offence at that, well it requires no further comment.



And the arrogance surfaces, Fish owns the field and tells me to go away.

And by the way, I’ve never claimed to be a researcher. Just a person with opinions. Sadly though, not the kind that you like (ones that always agree with yours.)

[Herlock Sholmes]

I´m sure you have that impression - all the good things and the friendly posts were made by you, and all the inflammatory and eveil ones were made by me.

It is becoming increasingly apparent just how amazing a researcher you are.

Your first post on this thread, post number 70, was in response to a post by Gareth. Here is what it looked like:

Originally Posted by Sam Flynn
What happened to the Ripper victims was very different to what happened to the torso victims, and the pattern of the crimes was very different, both temporally and geographically.

Your answer:

I can hear the grinding of Scandinavian teeth Gareth

So much for your goodnatured posting, never starting a brawl. And so much for looking in the mirror.

Now, if you have nothing factual to add to the debate, please go away.

What that illustrates perfectly is the sense of humour bypass that you’ve obviously had. There was nothing at all nasty in that as anyone can see. I was simply pointing out that it was a statement that you wouldn’t agree with. Anyone that can take offence at that, well it requires no further comment.

And the arrogance surfaces, Fish owns the field and tells me to go away.

[Fisherman]

Take the rose tinted glasses of it’s there for all to see but there is that saying “there is none so blind as they that cannot see” or those that don’t want to see

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

If he cannot see what you are talking about, then maybe you should help him out and explain it, Trevor?

[Trevor Marriott]

Wheres the “overwhelming evidence” that jackson or the others werent murdered trevor?

Take the rose tinted glasses of it’s there for all to see but there is that saying “there is none so blind as they that cannot see” or those that don’t want to see

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fisherman]

You have a selective memory Fish. Every single piece of Ill feeling over the last year or so has been started by you. Every single batch of insults. Every single time. And believe me, I am certainly not alone in this opinion.

Check the mirror Fish.

I´m sure you have that impression - all the good things and the friendly posts were made by you, and all the inflammatory and eveil ones were made by me.

It is becoming increasingly apparent just how amazing a researcher you are.

Your first post on this thread, post number 70, was in response to a post by Gareth. Here is what it looked like:

Originally Posted by Sam Flynn
What happened to the Ripper victims was very different to what happened to the torso victims, and the pattern of the crimes was very different, both temporally and geographically.

Your answer:

I can hear the grinding of Scandinavian teeth Gareth

So much for your goodnatured posting, never starting a brawl. And so much for looking in the mirror.

Now, if you have nothing factual to add to the debate, please go away.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Then don´t talk to yourself, since YOU have called ME deluded and biased (together with a lot of other not very flattering things), and with no honest aim in my research.

And you don´t have any desire to interact with such people, remember.

Pot and kettle, Herlock; pot and kettle.

Bye.

You have a selective memory Fish. Every single piece of Ill feeling over the last year or so has been started by you. Every single batch of insults. Every single time. And believe me, I am certainly not alone in this opinion.

Check the mirror Fish.

[Fisherman]

On the contrary - if we take the lower bounds or even the midpoints, then all the victims so far mentioned were significantly younger than the Ripper victims, apart from Kelly. At the very worst, the torso victims were thirty-somethings, as opposed to forty-somethings like the majority of the C5.

And that signals ... what? An exclusive interest in younger women? I really don´t think anything at all can be read into it. The Pinchin Street woman may have been 40 and looked 50, whereas Nichols looked ten years younger than the 43 she was. Nothing at all can be concluded, thus.

Sutcliffes victims, both those attacked and those killed, were in chronological order 36, 46, 14, 28, 46, 20, 28, 16, 42, 20, 21, 18, 40, 19, 47, 20, 34 and 16. Good luck reading some sort of dignificance into that, other than the obvious one: they were all women and where they should not have been.

If you want to pursue the idea that the sketchy information we have on the Torso victims tells the killer apart from the Ripper, you are doing yourself a disservice. It will inevitably put a(nother) leak in the hull of your credibility, if you ask me.

Then again, you don´t, do you?

[Sam Flynn]

Galloway had the Rainham victim down as being somewhere between her late twenties and thirtyfive years of age.

The Whitehall victim was between 25 and 30, according to Bond.

The Pinchin Street victim was between 25 and 40, as far as Hebbert could tell.

So nothing much to go on there, I´m afraid.

On the contrary - if we take the lower bounds or even the midpoints, then all the victims so far mentioned were significantly younger than the Ripper victims, apart from Kelly. At the very worst, the torso victims were thirty-somethings, as opposed to forty-somethings like the majority of the C5.