Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim

[Lipsky]

I tried to search the archive posts as much as possible - apologies if this has been brought up before.

Simon Wood commented somewhere that Tabram is where "Leather Apron" merges into "Jack the Ripper" -- a remarkable feat indeed.

In my empirical approach, Tabram is the end of Phase I (Spring attacks) and the beginning of the climax leading to mass hysteria and elimination of second group of women acting as "instruments" of other parties.

Of all those suspects named in this mess, one's known recorded life does have a specific significance tied to the date (and day) of Tabram's murder.

If this is where personal element of the killer distinguishes motive from purpose, and if indeed the merge from phase I to phase II would have to be picked by the perpetrator (and not by the interests he represented), then this actual person ties in with the portrait of our man on a more personal scale -- and way better than weird polish rogue barbers.

In my opinion, only two or three of all the suspects could have some knowledge of the inner workings that tied together all victims and their pimps/financial controllers (and possibly a couple of boyfriends/muscles in on the scam).
From these three, only two come close to the portrait of the man.
From these two, only one has that date and day correlation.

This doesnt mean that this actual person is the perpetrator. But he is the sole person of those accused/named that has a general and particular match to the portrait and the only one with an actual date/day correlation to the date of Tabram's murder that launches the autumn of terror.

[MrBarnett]

What use would women who struggled to earn the price of a doss house bed have been to a ‘financial controller’?

[Lipsky]

What use would women who struggled to earn the price of a doss house bed have been to a ‘financial controller’?

The answer is in your sentence.
So a guy owns a couple of slums, and he rents them to unfortunates for crumbles. Add these crumbs up and you'll have a growing business.
Now these women might take "home" a client of two right? But the guy runs a "respectable business", he wouldnt know about these things, right?
A neat commission , lets say 10%?, would help him look the other way.
And our respectable businessman dont want trouble with this sort of clientelle, so if some violence occurs, we'll sweep it under the carpet , right?
Does that make him a pimp? I'll leave it open to everyone's opinion.

Now. Let us assume some of these prostitutes pile up debts. Crumbles or not, they cant afford them, especially if they are not in their prime, especially if they run an alcohol addiction, especially if they got mugged here and there. The debt piles up. Our guy is understanding, but he might ask for a favor or two, in return. And why would such a heavily, down-on-her-luck prostitute disobey the "request"? She'd be out on the street. So she complies. And a small, confident (remember: in such bleak scenarios, the most guarranteed confidence is the one bought at a hard price) "soldier"/"messenger" is formed.

Imagine 5 ("Canon")... or maybe 10 women (total victim toll). They may all know each other. But it seems, de facto, in retrospect (nothing wrong with "reverse engineering") that three of them knew each other (Group I). And maybe 5-6 other of them know each other (Group II). And a more "backseat" bunch forms the loose end of this perimeter.

The guy they owe the debt to, the guy who can throw them off the street, is their financial controller or not? And he might have heard something. Or another "businessman" of the same trade might have heard something -- maybe off the street, maybe off their muscle boys, maybe off their prostitutes. And they have this idea, to exploit on this "something", if that "someone" is a respectable socialite with a few vices up his sleeve (or lower). That "someone" wouldnt afford a scandal. And our guy, or his friend, or both of them, become greedy. But they are, mind you, respectable businessmen. They wouldnt get their hands dirty. So he/they (if it's one or two makes no arguable difference over this consideration of events), send out Group I for "field work" [or the executioner becomes with them first -- again the small-scale specifics are secondary and impossible to prove with today's info -- the large-scale consideration interests us].

So our ball starts rolling.

By the way, name-calling is a vice I detest. That's why I refrained from naming my two-three aforementioned individuals.
I'll proceed now: Barnett, Hutchinson, James Kelly.

Barnett fits the "boyfriend"/muscle boy that probably tried to talk MJK out the mess after the Double hit, unsuccessfully. Probably he loved her. Devastated at inquest and funeral, according to reports.

Hutch was probably more of a "soldier" than a friend (in the genuine sense of the word) for MJK, maybe a bit of both -- obviously muscle boy and "street ear" of his boss. Sent on a mission, he fabricated his infamous "suspect" as a public way of desperately carrying on the blackmail. He may have indeed been on the lookout, unaware of how things might turn out. Or he might be a "double liaison", out for his own (Warren's pardon?).

James Kelly is the only one of the named "candidates" that fits a general portrayal and a more particular set of skills. That doesnt mean that he is the perpetrator.

Let me put it this way: if the perpetrator came exclusively from the pool of named candidates as of today, this would be our man.

I wont go over the specifics of this man that provide time/geography correlation to that time and geographical window. Anyone can look them up.

What interests us in this thread is that he is the only named candidate with a correlation for the date/day when Phase I of the early attacks becomes Phase II.

"Tuesday August 7th 1883 - Kelly is examined by Dr W. Orange, superintendent of Broadmoor, who reports that in his opinion Kelly is of defective mental capacity."

(Four days after the Home Secretary refused clemency for the planned execution).

Martha Tabram, the first victim of the autumn of terror, was murdered in the wee hours of Tuesday August 7, 1888.

[Scott Nelson]

James Kelly's murder weapon: an upholsterer's chisel???

[Lipsky]

James Kelly's murder weapon: an upholsterer's chisel???

Judging from what went down at the Brider residence, his unfortunate wife got to see his knife more than his "wee-wee".
Safe to assume the knife was a favorite toy of Jamie boy.

Perhaps he also favored the chisel over his "own" tool.
He seems quite the "handy" type (pun intended).

Wouldnt want him to do your home tapestry, though!

[Michael W Richards]

There is more than ample evidence to conclude that Martha Tabram was killed by 2 people...it would be exceedingly rare to find someone choose to use a lethal weapon only once within 39 stabs, she was stabbed to death.. there is no "ripping", mutilating or double throat cuts, ergo...she is killed by 2 men, at least 1 of which was likely a client. And at least one was a military man. The guy with the bayonet.

[Lipsky]

There is more than ample evidence to conclude that Martha Tabram was killed by 2 people...it would be exceedingly rare to find someone choose to use a lethal weapon only once within 39 stabs, she was stabbed to death.. there is no "ripping", mutilating or double throat cuts, ergo...she is killed by 2 men, at least 1 of which was likely a client. And at least one was a military man. The guy with the bayonet.

One stab for the kill and 38 to go. Two knives does not mean two men. It only means... two knives.
I dont see a second perpetrator stabbing 38 times a fatally-stabbed victim of a first, separate perpetrator. Illogical, in my opinion.
Tabram pattern of multiple stabbings is similar to the first attack of the spring offensinve (Millwood, Febr. 25).
Attack sites within minutes of walking distance (geographical pattern):The site of the first offensive and the site of the second, major offensive.
Millwood reported a single perpetrator, before her collapse and death.
Tabram is the first successful kill, meaning that the victim neither survived the attack not succumbed later on as happened in the spring offensive.
It was a test-bed for the gradual succession of mutilation-executions to come.

[Michael W Richards]

One stab for the kill and 38 to go. Two knives does not mean two men. It only means... two knives.
I dont see a second perpetrator stabbing 38 times a fatally-stabbed victim of a first, separate perpetrator. Illogical, in my opinion.
Tabram pattern of multiple stabbings is similar to the first attack of the spring offensinve (Millwood, Febr. 25).
Attack sites within minutes of walking distance (geographical pattern):The site of the first offensive and the site of the second, major offensive.
Millwood reported a single perpetrator, before her collapse and death.
Tabram is the first successful kill, meaning that the victim neither survived the attack not succumbed later on as happened in the spring offensive.
It was a test-bed for the gradual succession of mutilation-executions to come.

It doesn't work. Lethal stab once after multiple stabs and one might imagine a bit exertion required to keep her fairly quiet and unable to defend herself. I don't recall any defensive wounds. Close quarter stabbing then a coup de grace? If the larger weapon was at hand it would have been used earlier, and likely more than once. By the time it was used it was a finale. Her killer used what he had on him, ...just had a thought here....maybe his buddy hands him back his own bayonet

when he comes looking for him....the one

that he has been holding for him while he's off with a whore ...then you have 2 weapons, same man, and accomplice. That "and accomplice" is troubling for anyone who doesn't see the need for more than one man for many of these murders. Jack seems to have prowled alone in my view.

[Lipsky]

It doesn't work. Lethal stab once after multiple stabs and one might imagine a bit exertion required to keep her fairly quiet and unable to defend herself. I don't recall any defensive wounds. Close quarter stabbing then a coup de grace? If the larger weapon was at hand it would have been used earlier, and likely more than once. By the time it was used it was a finale. Her killer used what he had on him, ...just had a thought here....maybe his buddy hands him back his own bayonet

when he comes looking for him....the one

that he has been holding for him while he's off with a whore ...then you have 2 weapons, same man, and accomplice. That "and accomplice" is troubling for anyone who doesn't see the need for more than one man for many of these murders. Jack seems to have prowled alone in my view.

Michael, the issue of an "accomplice" has troubled researchers and various scenarios have been offered.
Though, as you have gathered, I am of the opinion that there was at least an "employer" behind the murderer, and though I cannot exclude some possible "accomplice" in terms of logistics and operational assistance, I am also of the opinion that our man acted solo in his special-ops, like a trained assassin left out in foreign/hostile territory in paramilitary warfare.

On the other hand, the mutilations were a gradual build-up. Pattern of Tabram murder provides glaring similarities with attack on Millwood, which forces us to reconsider the victim toll. I am more inclined to believe that the killer's signature was a "work in progress" (what Douglas calls "learned behavior" in his profiling), than accept that two murderers of prostitutes with a penchant for stabbing were around at the same time, vicinity and group of victims. It's an odder chance.

[Michael W Richards]

Michael, the issue of an "accomplice" has troubled researchers and various scenarios have been offered.
Though, as you have gathered, I am of the opinion that there was at least an "employer" behind the murderer, and though I cannot exclude some possible "accomplice" in terms of logistics and operational assistance, I am also of the opinion that our man acted solo in his special-ops, like a trained assassin left out in foreign/hostile territory in paramilitary warfare.

On the other hand, the mutilations were a gradual build-up. Pattern of Tabram murder provides glaring similarities with attack on Millwood, which forces us to reconsider the victim toll. I am more inclined to believe that the killer's signature was a "work in progress" (what Douglas calls "learned behavior" in his profiling), than accept that two murderers of prostitutes with a penchant for stabbing were around at the same time, vicinity and group of victims. It's an odder chance.

I think what the profiling misses here is that there is specificity to some acts, ones in fact that occur within the shortest time span in all these crimes. Not even 2 weeks. Your contention is that the killer evolved into this butterfly by first being the caterpillar that stabbed Martha Tabram with a pocket pen knife? A month earlier? The evolution you and many seek is evident there in those consecutive murders, tentative abdominal mutilation in the street then turns to more specific, targeted extractions in a backyard. The murder and mutilation of Annie Chapman was done by someone accustomed to a more clinical approach, get the nasty killing bit out of the way, helps with some bloodletting by choosing the double throat cut, then roll up the sleeves and go to work. "There were no meaningless cuts". That's a powerful statement considering the hour, the location, and the circumstances. Yet this guy kept his cool. Not so with Johnny Penknife. He was pissed off. We can speculate till the cows come home why he was angry, but its an emotionally erratic murder. As is the beginning of Mary Kellys.

[Michael W Richards]

The police went to some lengths to schedule, then re-schedule, a line-up of soldiers for Poll. Many think she was little more than a distraction here, but I think what she says about earlier that evening is telling. No, I don't believe Martha was still with the same soldier when she is killed, but if Poll tells the truth here, we have evidence again that soldiers were out that night in pairs. . See the constable questioning the soldier waiting for his "chum, off with a girl" for further proof.

2 weapons, 2 dudes.

[Lipsky]

I think what the profiling misses here is that there is specificity to some acts, ones in fact that occur within the shortest time span in all these crimes. Not even 2 weeks. Your contention is that the killer evolved into this butterfly by first being the caterpillar that stabbed Martha Tabram with a pocket pen knife? A month earlier? The evolution you and many seek is evident there in those consecutive murders, tentative abdominal mutilation in the street then turns to more specific, targeted extractions in a backyard. The murder and mutilation of Annie Chapman was done by someone accustomed to a more clinical approach, get the nasty killing bit out of the way, helps with some bloodletting by choosing the double throat cut, then roll up the sleeves and go to work. "There were no meaningless cuts". That's a powerful statement considering the hour, the location, and the circumstances. Yet this guy kept his cool. Not so with Johnny Penknife. He was pissed off. We can speculate till the cows come home why he was angry, but its an emotionally erratic murder. As is the beginning of Mary Kellys.

Thank you for your feedback, Michael!

My assumptions is that this sexually incompetent (masochist, no desire for intercourse, relies heavily on roleplay to recreate trauma caused by mother/absence of in adolescence, fetish for older women and verbal humiliation) freak changed from a caterpillar to a butterfly when his first murder was committed. My number #1 suspect, James Kelly, murdered his wife Sarah (his wife had his mother's name) with a pen knife. So the MO is already there. But let's say that this is not "James Kelly" per se, but "someone", our man. Never gave himself a tradename.

My understanding is that he began his half-complete, half-successful attacks in February-April 1888, with two successful, eventual kills: Millwood and Smith. Tabram marks a significant change for our man, because it is the first murder successful on the spot. From there on, since the "Testbed" was successful, the terrorism begins, with the theatrical executions/mutilations, right up to MJK. The frenzy and the madness was employed with discipline. Our man never lost hold of himself (what there was left of himself, anyway).

The issue of a second accomplice needs serious thinking. I doubt it, but it is more acceptable than the theory of a quack american doctor or some weird Polish Jew barber.

[Michael W Richards]

Thank you for your feedback, Michael!

My assumptions is that this sexually incompetent (masochist, no desire for intercourse, relies heavily on roleplay to recreate trauma caused by mother/absence of in adolescence, fetish for older women and verbal humiliation) freak changed from a caterpillar to a butterfly when his first murder was committed. My number #1 suspect, James Kelly, murdered his wife Sarah (his wife had his mother's name) with a pen knife. So the MO is already there. But let's say that this is not "James Kelly" per se, but "someone", our man. Never gave himself a tradename.

My understanding is that he began his half-complete, half-successful attacks in February-April 1888, with two successful, eventual kills: Millwood and Smith. Tabram marks a significant change for our man, because it is the first murder successful on the spot. From there on, since the "Testbed" was successful, the terrorism begins, with the theatrical executions/mutilations, right up to MJK. The frenzy and the madness was employed with discipline. Our man never lost hold of himself (what there was left of himself, anyway).

The issue of a second accomplice needs serious thinking. I doubt it, but it is more acceptable than the theory of a quack american doctor or some weird Polish Jew barber.

Ah...you also incorporate the Smith and Millwood events too? Even though Emma clearly was attacked by a small gang? Hmm. For myself, I can see 2 almost identical murders within this whole Unsolved events mess and as such they are the only 2 I can group under 1 killer...virtually identical in every aspect, close in timing, and geography,..the victims almost look identical in the photos we have of them. Both cut and mutilated in the same fashion, one more egregiously than the other...the second, almost certainly a result of a venue change.

As I mentioned, when you have very specific actions, and repetitive ones, then you have a pattern. Penknifes to hacksaws, stabbing to mutilation, mutilating then on to poisoning, emptying the body cavity-cutting off limbs, I see the stretch marks all over the place with that kind of rationalization.