Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim

[John Wheat]

McKenzie fits the Ripper signature (left carotid artery severed and lower-body mutilated) much better than Tabram, or even Ellen Bury for that matter. For me, the time gap is a non-issue. We're only talking about eight months.

You have concluded that William Bury was the Ripper. Therefore, any evidence that doesn't conform to that belief will be summarily dismissed.

Eight months is a long time considering the short gaps between the canonical murders. Yes I believe Bury was the Ripper however I'm not some lunatic who wouldn't be willing to accept overwhelming evidence that does not conform to that belief. However McKenzie was not a Ripper victim. I'm not the only one who believes this. I think you'll find most do not believe she was a Ripper victim and with good reason.

[Jon Guy]

Eight months is a long time considering the short gaps between the canonical murders. Yes I believe Bury was the Ripper however I'm not some lunatic who wouldn't be willing to accept overwhelming evidence that does not conform to that belief. However McKenzie was not a Ripper victim. I'm not the only one who believes this. I think you'll find most do not believe she was a Ripper victim and with good reason.

Perhaps, it`s the Ripper who starts killing in the summer.
Tabram in Aug and McKenzie in July.

[Harry D]

Eight months is a long time considering the short gaps between the canonical murders. Yes I believe Bury was the Ripper however I'm not some lunatic who wouldn't be willing to accept overwhelming evidence that does not conform to that belief. However McKenzie was not a Ripper victim. I'm not the only one who believes this. I think you'll find most do not believe she was a Ripper victim and with good reason.

Serial killers can't possibly have downtime, John? There couldn't be possibly be any reason for an eight month time gap? For example, incarceration, illness, travel, or something even more mundane?

I think you'll find most do not believe she was a Ripper victim and with good reason.

There are good reasons, John, but the signature in McKenzie's murder gives her the edge over the proximity in Tabram's imo. Anyway, there was certainly no consensus on the Ripper's tally, and to appeal to one is rather spurious reasoning.

[John Wheat]

Serial killers can't possibly have downtime, John? There couldn't be possibly be any reason for an eight month time gap? For example, incarceration, illness, travel, or something even more mundane?



There are good reasons, John, but the signature in McKenzie's murder gives her the edge over the proximity in Tabram's imo. Anyway, there was certainly no consensus on the Ripper's tally, and to appeal to one is rather spurious reasoning.

I don't however see how you can rule Bury out as The Ripper by a victim who may not have been a victim of the Ripper and that to me is rather spurious reasoning.

[Harry D]

I don't however see how you can rule Bury out as The Ripper by a victim who may not have been a victim of the Ripper and that to me is rather spurious reasoning.

Ellen Bury's throat was not cut. Her murderer was known to her. Her mutilations were tamer than Alice McKenzie (whom you rule out definitively).

No doubt you will argue "xyz" for the above, and you may be right, but we have "xyz" for McKenzie, who has more signature Ripper elements than Ellen Bury.

[John Wheat]

Ellen Bury's throat was not cut. Her murderer was known to her. Her mutilations were tamer than Alice McKenzie (whom you rule out definitively).

No doubt you will argue "xyz" for the above, and you may be right, but we have "xyz" for McKenzie, who has more signature Ripper elements than Ellen Bury.

I don't see how her murderer being known to her is a point against Bury being the Ripper quite the opposite in fact it may explain the tamer mutilations. Also we don't know if the Ripper new any of his victims.

[Harry D]

I don't see how her murderer being known to her is a point against Bury being the Ripper

Because the majority of serial killer victims aren't known to them, at least not intimately.

quite the opposite in fact it may explain the tamer mutilations.

How so? If anything, it's peculiar for the Ripper NOT to go to town on someone he has a close connection with.

Also we don't know if the Ripper new any of his victims.

See my first point.

[John Wheat]

Because the majority of serial killer victims aren't known to them, at least not intimately.



How so? If anything, it's peculiar for the Ripper NOT to go to town on someone he has a close connection with.



See my first point.

But why would Bury heavily mutilate his wife? He wouldn't want to hang himself.

[Harry D]

He wouldn't want to hang himself.

How did that work out for him?

[John Wheat]

How did that work out for him?

Not that well. But it doesn't alter the fact I may be right.

[Harry D]

Not that well. But it doesn't alter the fact I may be right.

Doesn't it? Bury half-assed the mutilations, stuffed her in a box, then basically handed himself into the police. What about that strikes you as a Ripper murder?

[John Wheat]

Doesn't it? Bury half-assed the mutilations, stuffed her in a box, then basically handed himself into the police. What about that strikes you as a Ripper murder?

Point to a better suspect than Bury then?

[Wyatt Earp]

As I showed in Table 2 of “The Bury ID” (http://williambury.org/blog6/the-bury-id/), the underlying signature structures of the Martha Tabram and Ellen Bury murders are virtually identical. The signature of a serial killer tends to remain very stable, and the combination of signature characteristics on display in the two murders is extremely rare. Given that the MO of a serial killer can vary among crime scenes, the use of a different MO in the two murders does not override or negate the close signature match. Tabram belongs to Jack (Bury).

[Wyatt Earp]

McKenzie fits the Ripper signature (left carotid artery severed and lower-body mutilated) much better than Tabram, or even Ellen Bury for that matter.

The cutting of the throat was a part of the Ripper's MO, not his signature. The difference between MO and signature is covered in Signature Analysis 101.

[Harry D]

Point to a better suspect than Bury then?

Moving the goalposts.

Besides, I've always said Bury is the better of the named suspects. None of the others can be proven to have committed a Ripper-ish murder, and there are solid arguments for the lack of overkill/throat cutting. However, Alice McKenzie's murder still has more similarities to the series than Ellen Bury's does, and therefore it leaves serious question marks about him as the killer.