Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim

[Harry D]

Was Tabram less or more likely a Ripper victim than Alice McKenzie?

[Abby Normal]

Was Tabram less or more likely a Ripper victim than Alice McKenzie?

the same. they were both killed by the ripper. see raised skirt to expose the abdomen.

and I agree with everyone that Tabram to Nichols is an evolution by the ripper- changing knives, learning what he wants to do and do it more efficiently. Its classic serial killer escalation.

[Sam Flynn]

If anything, what happened to Martha Tabram was far, far more extreme than what happened to all the Ripper victims apart from Kelly. It's not so much an escalation as a deceleration, allied to a radical change of technique.

[Abby Normal]

If anything, what happened to Martha Tabram was far, far more extreme than what happened to all the Ripper victims apart from Kelly. It's not so much an escalation as a deceleration, allied to a radical change of technique.

HI Sam
Ive seen you post this sort of thing before and I just don't get it. more extreme? deceleration? no.

Especially if you factor in Millwood who in all likelihood was an early ripper victim.

millwood-stabbed, stabbed in lower parts

tabram-stabbed, stabbed in lower parts, neck targeted

Nichols-stabbed, neck targeted/ripped. abdomen/lower parts ripped


To think the rippers mature MO sprung fully formed with Nichols beggars belief!

[Sam Flynn]

HI Sam
Ive seen you post this sort of thing before and I just don't get it. more extreme?

Thirty nine stabs is pretty darned extreme in my book. Imagine taking a knife and repeatedly plunging it into someone's body:

Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump!

Compare and contrast with a cut throat and a few cuts to the abdomen. Oh, and no damage whatsoever to the chest or stomach.

Nichols-stabbed, neck targeted/ripped. abdomen/lower parts ripped

You've still got a touch of HOGS (Holmgren's Over-Generalisation Syndrome), I see

The Devle's in the details.

[Abby Normal]

Thirty nine stabs is pretty darned extreme in my book. Imagine taking a knife and repeatedly plunging it into someone's body:

Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump! Whump!

Compare and contrast with a cut throat and a few cuts to the abdomen. Oh, and no damage whatsoever to the chest or stomach.

You've still got a touch of HOGS (Holmgren's Over-Generalisation Syndrome), I see

The Devle's in the details.

and I see you still have SOMMS (Sams Over Minutia Minimalist Syndrome)! ; )

[Sam Flynn]

One man's minutiæ is another one's details

[Sam Flynn]

To think the rippers mature MO sprung fully formed with Nichols beggars belief!

I don't see why not, but if there was an incremental build-up, I don't envisage the preceding step as a 39-stab frenzy overwhelmingly focused on the upper body.

[Harry D]

There's enough variation in Tabram's murder with the frenzied stabbing and focus on the upper-torso as opposed to the abdomen/reproductive area, to rule her out. It's exactly the type of occupational hazard for a prostitute who pissed off a punter with a short fuse.

[John Wheat]

Was Tabram less or more likely a Ripper victim than Alice McKenzie?

Much more likely. The time frame coupled with a serious toning down with no apparent reason rules McKenzie out.

[Harry D]

Much more likely. The time frame coupled with a serious toning down with no apparent reason rules McKenzie out.

There are plenty of reasons though, John, both external and internal to justify that. It might be connected to the gap from the last murder.

[John Wheat]

There are plenty of reasons though, John, both external and internal to justify that. It might be connected to the gap from the last murder.

I'm not convinced by that.

[Harry D]

I'm not convinced by that.

I wonder why

[John Wheat]

I wonder why

Well for a start you've given no examples.

[Harry D]

Well for a start you've given no examples.

McKenzie fits the Ripper signature (left carotid artery severed and lower-body mutilated) much better than Tabram, or even Ellen Bury for that matter. For me, the time gap is a non-issue. We're only talking about eight months.

You have concluded that William Bury was the Ripper. Therefore, any evidence that doesn't conform to that belief will be summarily dismissed.