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  • #46
    The Gangs of New York

    Cappucina, your link 3. is most interesting http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...brothel&st=cse

    Originally posted by Wolf Vanderlinden View Post
    By 1907 the East River Hotel was no longer a hotel.
    But not before another murder occured there, Wolf.

    HOTEL KEEPER IS KILLED

    Man Caught Running Away and Held on a Homicide Charge

    William H. Keyes, thirty-nine years old, who for eighteen months had been proprietor of the East River Hotel, at Catharine Slip and Water Street, was shot through the heart and instantly killed while sitting in front of the hotel at 12:30 o’clock yesterday morning. His pockets were turned inside out and $250 taken. Policeman Ray of the Oak Street Station, hearing the shot, ran toward the sound and caught a man running away. He took from the man a pistol which, he says, was still warm and from which a .32 calibre bullet had been shot. At the station house the man gave the name of James Kelly, twenty-three years old, a stonecutter of 90 Division Street. The police insist that he is James Breen, a brother of David Breen, who a few days ago shot down “Jocko” Byrnes, who he had succeeded as the leader of the Cherry Street “gang.” The police also took into custody Joseph O’Toole, a bartender at the hotel; John Murphy, a boarder; William Pendleton, a pilot, and John Breen, a plumber.

    An autopsy was performed on Keyes’s body, showing that death was due to a .32 calibre bullet that had pierced the heart. The prisoners were arraigned before coroner Brown yesterday morning, and the man who gave the name of Kelly was committed without bail, while the others, with the exception of John Murphy, were sent to the House of Detention as witnesses.

    New York Times
    Sept 17, 1903
    Sink the Bismark

    Comment


    • #47
      Hi Roy.

      But not before another murder occured there, Wolf.
      Actually more than one.

      In December of 1891, only months after the Brown murder, Patrick Cleary was arrested for murdering his "wife" at the East River Hotel. He apparently strangled her after a drunken argument. James Breen, who murdered William Keyes in 1903, got the chair but I'm not sure what happened to Cleary.

      Wolf.

      Comment


      • #48
        Hi, just wanted to say thanks to Cappucina for the great links she provided and to Roy for the photos, especially the one of the Revolutionary War veteran's headstone in the Jewish cemetery. That's really cool.

        When I was a kid I explored a lot of old cemeteries in New England and New York. I still find them fascinating.

        Thanks and best regards,
        Archaic

        Comment


        • #49
          Wow is about all I can say to the newspaper articles, very well done Chris, thank you very much.
          It is not in the heart that hate begins but in the mind of those that seek the revenge of creation. Darrel Derek Stieben

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          • #50
            very helpful links, thank you....
            It is not in the heart that hate begins but in the mind of those that seek the revenge of creation. Darrel Derek Stieben

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by corey123 View Post
              From the Evening Post, Volume XLI, Issue 115, 16 May 1891, Page 2

              Also seen in the Star, May 16, 1891

              Also, the Feilding Star, May 16, under the title of "The New York "Jack the Ripper"
              The article is WRONG it was not a copycat the ripper (Tumblety or not) skipped London and killed again in NYC

              Regards
              Mr Holmes

              Comment


              • #52
                Source please...

                All the best

                Dave

                Comment


                • #53
                  Mr. Holmes, did you ever read where your highly esteemed namesake said that it was "folly to theorize without facts"? Don't get me wrong, investigation into any given suspect is likely to turn to speculation, but we can only speculate from known fact. If you wish to call any evidence presented wrong, and make a statement as to why it is wrong, tell us where you found the information. You may have made a breakthrough to something that none of us has ever discovered!

                  God Bless

                  Raven Darkendale
                  And the questions always linger, no real answer in sight

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Two sources caused me to connect info like that links to both are below

                    http://http://www.casebook.org/victims/carrie.html

                    http://www.goldonian.org/sub_pages/tumblety_jtr.htm

                    Regards
                    Holmes

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Hi Sherlock

                      I'm afraid Carrie Brown (aka Shakespeare) who was murdered in April 1891, nearly three years after JtR, is (a) old hat, and (b) generally acknowledged to have nothing whatever to do with the Whitechapel murders...as the autopsy photographs (see this site under victims) would appear to show - sorry!

                      All the best

                      Dave

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
                        Hi Sherlock

                        I'm afraid Carrie Brown (aka Shakespeare) who was murdered in April 1891, nearly three years after JtR, is (a) old hat, and (b) generally acknowledged to have nothing whatever to do with the Whitechapel murders...as the autopsy photographs (see this site under victims) would appear to show - sorry!

                        All the best

                        Dave
                        2 years 7 months in fact

                        that in my opinion is long enough for a killer to change his modus operandi and skip the country

                        Regards
                        Mr Holmes

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Long enough, to be able to say with total certainty:-

                          The article is WRONG it was not a copycat the ripper (Tumblety or not) skipped London and killed again in NYC
                          Sorry...this is totally unsupported opinion and nothing more

                          All the best

                          Dave

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
                            Long enough, to be able to say with total certainty:-



                            Sorry...this is totally unsupported opinion and nothing more

                            All the best

                            Dave
                            need i draw attention to Bonnie and Clyde. took them less than 3 months to fake their deaths and skip town

                            i read that in a book thats no longer in print
                            Last edited by Sherlock Holmes; 10-01-2012, 11:05 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              So to shoe-horn in some theory or another you're quite prepared to postulate:-

                              1) An unexplained 2 year 7 month gap in these killings

                              2) A total change of M.O.

                              3) An unexplained and undocumented journey thousands of miles long from a killer who, odds on, (unless a celebrity or Tumblety), probably didn't have two beans to rub together...

                              On which basis I can probably make the tooth fairy a valid suspect for JFK

                              All the best

                              Dave

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                1) A TOTAL change in MO is easy even for the ripper. A killer's MO may change but his trademark (removing organs) will not
                                2) If he was poor he has migrated to the Americas illegally
                                3) 2 year 7 months of planing his escape from England. he needed to lie low while he did so to avoid letting the Yard he was on the move

                                Regards
                                Mr Holmes

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