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New York. 1891

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
    need i draw attention to Bonnie and Clyde. took them less than 3 months to fake their deaths and skip town

    i read that in a book thats no longer in print
    Bonnie and Clyde faked their death?!! Did you ever see photos of the death car? There is even a film of the car with the bodies inside floating around out there, I think I found it on YouTube. More than that, I've seen the actual car itself. It used to tour the country to give morbid people something to see and others a good scare. It was either the late 60's early 70's that the tour came through my hometown. Trust me, NOBODY got out of that car alive!
    And the questions always linger, no real answer in sight

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Wolf Vanderlinden View Post
      Roy, I tried to send you a message but it kept saying that it was too long so I have decided to answer you here if that's okay.

      I went through the over 1300 pages of newspaper reports that I have on the Brown murder and related topics and looked at several other sources looking to answer this question.

      The majority of reports say that the hotel was on the south-east corner of Water Street and Catharine Slip. Some newspapers say that the hotel was on the south-west corner but these seem to be out of state newspapers who, therefore, would have got their information from a newsagency where one mistake would have been passed around the US. All the New York papers that I consulted who mentioned exactly where the hotel stood say south-east corner.

      Also, Charles W. Gardner, who wrote about his corruption busting efforts with Dr. Charles H. Parkhurst in his book The Doctor and the Devil, or Midnight Adventures of Dr. Parkhurst (Gardener & Co., 1894) wrote about the East River Hotel. Gardener, Parkhurst and another man actually visited the hotel and Gardener gives a fascinating description of the place. He states that the hotel was on the south-east corner of Water Street and Catharine Slip.

      However, those papers, New York and otherwise, that give an actual address state that the hotel was either #14 or #16 Catherine Slip. This would suggest that the hotel was actually on the west side of the street.

      Finally, all the illustrations that I have that show the hotel show it to be on the south-east corner.

      You wrote



      Signage giving the name of the hotel was on both the Water Street and Catharine Slip sides of the building. The actual entrance to the hotel was on Water Street, which was the front of the building since Water was a major street, not Catharine Slip, which was a minor street going down to the Catharine Ferry docks. Some views show the hotel looking north from Catharine Slip and prove that the hotel was on the south-east corner.

      A pattern develops here. All the New York sources that actually went down to the hotel, entered it, wrote about it and even sketched it say that it was on the south-east corner. This first-hand observation about its location must be accepted. Itís easier to look at a building and say which corner itís on than to come up with an actual address, which means that someone has to search for a street number, and some of the sources which gave an address actually gave the wrong address (#16 Catharine Slip) according to your map.

      The south-east corner seems to be correct.

      Wolf.
      I recommend you read everything you can from Wolf Vanderlinden in the Carrie Brown case. He's done extensive research and I believe there is more to come. He makes a convincing case that Brown was not a Ripper victim.

      Sincerely,

      Mike
      The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
      http://www.michaelLhawley.com

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      • #63
        Originally posted by RavenDarkendale View Post
        Bonnie and Clyde faked their death?!! Did you ever see photos of the death car? There is even a film of the car with the bodies inside floating around out there, I think I found it on YouTube. More than that, I've seen the actual car itself. It used to tour the country to give morbid people something to see and others a good scare. It was either the late 60's early 70's that the tour came through my hometown. Trust me, NOBODY got out of that car alive!
        I saw it too! It would have had to have been sometime between '69 and '72, IIRC, that it was shown at our county fair. In my worldly sophistication (I was ten or so) I was certain that it had to be a fake, but it was cool to see a car that had been shot full of holes anyway. It was only 30 or so years later during a discussion with a sideshow historian that I learned it to have been genuine.
        - Ginger

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
          Note 27 Bridgeport Line. Hotel location nearby. Hard to pinpoint at an angle. from 1915
          [ATTACH]11147[/ATTACH]
          Not that it's at all relevant, but was anyone else struck by the fact that you can see at least five ads for Charles Fletcher's Castoria (a children's laxative) in this picture?
          - Ginger

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          • #65
            With all due respect to Wolf's copy of the drawing of the East River Hotel, I found this one that is very similar. I hope it doesn't belong to Wolf or anyone else...
            Attached Files

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            • #66
              Same disclosure as my last post...

              This is the most detailed one I've seen so far but unfortunately it is quite dark
              Attached Files

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              • #67
                Here is a view from Water Street
                Attached Files

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                • #68
                  Hi DRoy...OK you've got me hooked! Where on earth did this particular image appear from?

                  All the best

                  Dave

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                  • #69
                    Hi Dave,

                    In order...

                    Elmira Morning Telegram - May 8, 1891
                    New York's The Press - April 25, 1891
                    New York Herald - April 25, 1891 (this is the one you asked about)

                    There is at least one more drawing that I hope to be able to post on Wednesday. It also is a view from Water Street and is quite similar to the New York Herald drawing but with minor differences.

                    Cheers
                    DRoy

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