When was the estimation of when Mary took her last meal of fish and potatoes?

[John G]

Hello John

I don't see how she would have got a cut on her right thumb any other way. He didn't target her hands and the right thumb would have been the only part of her hand visible if she was holding the sheet over her head. People don't normally sleep with the sheet covering their face.

Best wishes
C4

Hello C4,

Possibly. However, presumably she may have accidentally cut herself earlier in the evening-remember, the cut was very superficial. I wonder, is it possible that the killer placed the sheet over her head, I.e to prevent being covered with arterial spray as he cut her throat?

[curious4]

Hello C4,

According to Dr Bond there was a "small superficial incision" to the right thumb. Of course, this might be indicative of a token attempt at defence, however, presumably such a superficial cut may have nothing to do with attack. The sheet, at the right-hand corner of the bed, was bloody and badly cut. This suggested to Dr Bond that Kelly's face may have been covered by the sheet at the time she was attacked.

Hello John

I don't see how she would have got a cut on her right thumb any other way. He didn't target her hands and the right thumb would have been the only part of her hand visible if she was holding the sheet over her head. People don't normally sleep with the sheet covering their face.

Best wishes
C4

[GUT]

Sorry, got my muddled little old lady head on today!

Best wishes
C4

Est nada

hAPPENS TO ME ALL THE TIME

[curious4]

But wasn't that "A" man?

Sorry, got my muddled little old lady head on today!

Best wishes
C4

[John G]

Hello John

Weren't there cuts to her hand, suggesting she was holding the sheet over her head when attacked?

Best wishes
C4

Hello C4,

According to Dr Bond there was a "small superficial incision" to the right thumb. Of course, this might be indicative of a token attempt at defence, however, presumably such a superficial cut may have nothing to do with attack. The sheet, at the right-hand corner of the bed, was bloody and badly cut. This suggested to Dr Bond that Kelly's face may have been covered by the sheet at the time she was attacked.

[GUT]

Hello GUT

What about "you will be comfortable"? Couldn't that suggest he told Mary he needed a place to wait in for something? Train, perhaps?

Best wishes
C4

But wasn't that "A" man?

[curious4]

"Is that a knife in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

Hello GUT

What about "you will be comfortable"? Couldn't that suggest he told Mary he needed a place to wait in for something? Train, perhaps?

Best wishes
C4

[curious4]

Hello Jon,

I'm not at all convinced by the theory that Kelly was probably killed between 3:30 and 4:00am. Firstly, although the cry of "murder" or "oh murder" was heard by two separate witnesses they give contradictory accounts: Sarah Lewis describes the cry as a "scream", where as Elizabeth Pratter, who lived in the room above Kelly, said the cry was in a faint voice (in fact, was Lewis' room much further away from Kelly's than Pratter's? If so, Pratter may only have heard a faint sound because it emanated from a room some distance away from her own, and Kelly's, I.e. somewhere closer to Lewis's accommodation.) And, of course, such cries were commonplace anyway.

Moreover, as I noted in my reply to Lynn, Dr Bond seemed to think that Kelly was probably asleep when she was attacked, which suggests that she may have been attacked without warning and not given the opportunity to cry out at all.

Hello John

Weren't there cuts to her hand, suggesting she was holding the sheet over her head when attacked?

Best wishes
C4

[John G]

Hi John.

Those numbers are familiar, yes I agree.
Dr. Bond only gives us a summary but I suspect he was working with similar estimates. Plus, he doesn't provide us with any idea of how much food was in the intestines, or the stomach. We can only assume 50/50, so if the stomach will empty after around five hours then we might assume 2.5 hours, give or take 30 mins either way, between the end of her meal and the point of death.

Because Dr. Bond estimated a time of death between 1:00-2:00 am, (ignoring the cry of murder), then it looks like he assumed she finished her meal between 10:30-11:30, before going back to her room.
In other words, she ate out, perhaps with Blotchy?
So, not eating in her room, plus, Mrs Cox said nothing about either of them carrying a parcel of food.

However, if we use the cry of murder as the point of death, sometime between 3:30-4:00 am, then she must have finished eating about 1:00-1:30 am, so after her liaison with Blotchy?

Hello Jon,

I'm not at all convinced by the theory that Kelly was probably killed between 3:30 and 4:00am. Firstly, although the cry of "murder" or "oh murder" was heard by two separate witnesses they give contradictory accounts: Sarah Lewis describes the cry as a "scream", where as Elizabeth Pratter, who lived in the room above Kelly, said the cry was in a faint voice (in fact, was Lewis' room much further away from Kelly's than Pratter's? If so, Pratter may only have heard a faint sound because it emanated from a room some distance away from her own, and Kelly's, I.e. somewhere closer to Lewis's accommodation.) And, of course, such cries were commonplace anyway.

Moreover, as I noted in my reply to Lynn, Dr Bond seemed to think that Kelly was probably asleep when she was attacked, which suggests that she may have been attacked without warning and not given the opportunity to cry out at all.

[John G]

Hello John.

"Moreover, if the murder was planned would the killer have waited for several hours before striking?"

Excellent observation. Also, are we to imagine him sitting in a chair, fully dressed so as to conceal his knife whilst she undressed and went to bed?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Interestingly, didn't Dr Bond suggest that Kelly may have been asleep at the time she was attacked, I.e because she was found lying in the middle of the bed with a sheet pulled up over her neck?

[John G]

Hello John. As you may recall, the nearest pubs were searched for anyone answering to Blotchy's description. Moreover, even the "pot boys" were consulted. No luck.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes, I have to say that Blotchy has always concerned me as a suspect. Thus, Kelly was described by Cox as being very drunk, I.e barely able to speak, suggesting that she may have been socializing with Blotchy for some time. However, despite his clearly distinctive complexion Cox is the only witness that noticed him in Kelly's company, or for that matter noticed him at all. Given the unreliability of a number of witnesses throughout this inquiry it does make you wonder about Mary Ann Cox's evidence.

[lynn cates]

no trace

Hello John. As you may recall, the nearest pubs were searched for anyone answering to Blotchy's description. Moreover, even the "pot boys" were consulted. No luck.

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

Hello John.

"Moreover, if the murder was planned would the killer have waited for several hours before striking?"

Excellent observation. Also, are we to imagine him sitting in a chair, fully dressed so as to conceal his knife whilst she undressed and went to bed?

Cheers.
LC

"Is that a knife in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

[lynn cates]

collateral noise

Hello Abby. I prefer your former. IF Blotchy killed "MJK," then the 4.00 cries were merely collateral noise.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

waiting

Hello John.

"Moreover, if the murder was planned would the killer have waited for several hours before striking?"

Excellent observation. Also, are we to imagine him sitting in a chair, fully dressed so as to conceal his knife whilst she undressed and went to bed?

Cheers.
LC