Mary Jane Kelly found?

[packers stem]

Now you want to use common sense.

Mile end was the same direction as her usual lodging only further I think.Maybe a visit to her sister in thrawl street? May have been the best option

[curious4]

In all this time of studying that picture I have never ever noticed that hairstyle. Wow. Thank you for pointing this out.

Hello Beowulf,

You're welcome. A female view of things can be useful sometimes :-).

Best wishes
C4

[curious4]

IF she had been in the West End 15 or 20 years earlier. At this point it is pure speculation. The earliest we have any inkling of MJK being in London is 1884. Hair styles of 1884 would have something looked like these.

http://www.uvm.edu/landscape/dating/clothing_and_hair/1880s_hair_women_files/image002.jpg

Do you ever do Victorian hairstyles? I regularly wear several different eras of clothing with the LVP being one of my favorites. Between pins and combs to keep everything in place plus pomades for body and curling irons for....well, curls- you need some disposable income to keep a fancy hairdo going.

Hello Penhalion

No, sadly my hair doesn't lend itself to complicated hairstyles being very fine. Yes, speculation, but it is a pretty good guess that she lied about her age and very probably about when she came to London. It has always puzzled me how she managed to fit so much into just a few years.

I think the row of ringlet-like curls above her forehead could be achieved with rags. Not too hard to achieve and that is what I am talking about, not the full style with velvet plaits and flowers. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.

Best wishes
C4

[curious4]

Surely Mary wouldn't have plaited her hair before going to bed if she was..um ..entertaining? I do think she may have had a strong wave in her hair.

I've seen many Victorian photos and a common hairstyle in the 1880's does seem to have been a mid parting with or without a fringe (fringes were sometimes frizzled but I don't think Mary would have had the curling irons to do that) with a plaited bun or looser figure of eight bun at the nape of the neck. I think if she was relaxing at night her long hair would be flowing over her shoulders. Women were so used to putting their hair up and taking it down from their mid-teens onwards that it would only have taken a few minutes.

Hello Rosella

Just to be clear, I meant the way she wore her hair in ringlet-like curls above her forehead, not the whole velvet plaits and flowers thing. I think her hair must have been contained somehow, otherwise there would be bloodied hair all over the place. There were cuts to the sheet, implying that she had pulled it over her head when the attack started, but whether she woke up, or was still awake to see her customer/friend turn from charmer to devil-possessed is impossible to say. Either way if she was drunk she probably left her hair the way it was.

Best wishes
C4,

[Rosella]

Surely Mary wouldn't have plaited her hair before going to bed if she was..um ..entertaining? I do think she may have had a strong wave in her hair.

I've seen many Victorian photos and a common hairstyle in the 1880's does seem to have been a mid parting with or without a fringe (fringes were sometimes frizzled but I don't think Mary would have had the curling irons to do that) with a plaited bun or looser figure of eight bun at the nape of the neck. I think if she was relaxing at night her long hair would be flowing over her shoulders. Women were so used to putting their hair up and taking it down from their mid-teens onwards that it would only have taken a few minutes.

[Beowulf]

Hello Penhallion

I think an over the top hairstyle is just what a lady of the night would aspire to. She had worked in a West End brothel where she would have been expected to dress up. To me the hair looks dressed, one of the saddest things about the photograph, the carefully styled hair above the dreadful face. Nevertheless it is a matter of opinion.

Best wishes
C4

In all this time of studying that picture I have never ever noticed that hairstyle. Wow. Thank you for pointing this out.

[Penhalion]

IF she had been in the West End 15 or 20 years earlier. At this point it is pure speculation. The earliest we have any inkling of MJK being in London is 1884. Hair styles of 1884 would have something looked like these.

http://www.uvm.edu/landscape/dating/clothing_and_hair/1880s_hair_women_files/image002.jpg

Do you ever do Victorian hairstyles? I regularly wear several different eras of clothing with the LVP being one of my favorites. Between pins and combs to keep everything in place plus pomades for body and curling irons for....well, curls- you need some disposable income to keep a fancy hairdo going.

[curious4]

But if she was in a relatively high end brothel, she would have been expected to wear contemporary hair styles not ones that were 15-20 years out of date. The effort and expense to keep up a really elaborate hair style would have been beyond the means of someone living hand to mouth. Judging from the other women in the area, high fashion was not one of the things men trolled the back alleys looking for.

It would fit if she had been in the West End 15 or 20 years earlier. And I think she would have been able to fix her own hair. She was proud of it as her best asset.

Best wishes
C4

[Penhalion]

But if she was in a relatively high end brothel, she would have been expected to wear contemporary hair styles not ones that were 15-20 years out of date. The effort and expense to keep up a really elaborate hair style would have been beyond the means of someone living hand to mouth. Judging from the other women in the area, high fashion was not one of the things men trolled the back alleys looking for.

[curious4]

I'm not sure we are seeing a formal hair-style there. She may have had a strong wave in her hair which would show if her hair fell back from her face as she lay on the bed. I am strongly Scottish/Welsh in background and have long, wavy auburn hair. My hair does something very similar to that naturally.

Also, the hairstyles in the illustrations were for very formal, elaborate ball gown ensembles and not something women would wear every day and probably not the style a woman from a poor working class family would wear in any case.

Hello Penhallion

I think an over the top hairstyle is just what a lady of the night would aspire to. She had worked in a West End brothel where she would have been expected to dress up. To me the hair looks dressed, one of the saddest things about the photograph, the carefully styled hair above the dreadful face. Nevertheless it is a matter of opinion.

Best wishes
C4

[Penhalion]

I'm not sure we are seeing a formal hair-style there. She may have had a strong wave in her hair which would show if her hair fell back from her face as she lay on the bed. I am strongly Scottish/Welsh in background and have long, wavy auburn hair. My hair does something very similar to that naturally.

Also, the hairstyles in the illustrations were for very formal, elaborate ball gown ensembles and not something women would wear every day and probably not the style a woman from a poor working class family would wear in any case.

[curious4]

https://www.victoriana.com/Victorian-Fashion/victorianhairstyles-1867.html

This should be the one. Second picture down.
The Marguerite.

C4

[curious4]

I have past waist length hair and have had all my adult life. Plaiting was common at night I used to but it is uncomfortable. I know curls take time! I don't have the patience but to me her hair looks straight on top

Hello Belinda

Looks to me like what were called "sausage curls" - at least to me. Used to really envy girls who could achieve these, but we were a large family and my mother never had time. Doubt she could have done it with my hair anyway lol. I believe rags were involved.

Best wishes
C4

PS The picture is clearer in some of the books, if you can avoid looking at the dreadfulness underneath.

[belinda]

I have past waist length hair and have had all my adult life. Plaiting was common at night I used to but it is uncomfortable. I know curls take time! I don't have the patience but to me her hair looks straight on top

[curious4]

Hello Belinda

She probably plaited it at night, my grandmother had hair she could sit on and always did. The fancy ringlets at the front - which is all we can see - probably took some time to do, so weren't combed out at night.

Best wishes
C4

P.S I will post the picture I have, which is dated, as soon as I can. As regards Queen Vic, she would have been around 40 in the 1860s and still has the hairdo she sported when she married Dear Albert. Our own Gracious Majesty has more or less the same hairstyle she always has, which sort of proves my point.