Murder, what murder?

[Wickerman]

Among working class people, I wouldn't have thought so.

But perhaps Kelly had convinced Jack (McC) that her family were well off.

Joseph Barnett and Mrs. Carthy, a woman with whom she lived at one time, say that she came from a family that was "fairly well off" (Barnett) and "well to do people" (Carthy). Mrs. Carthy also states that Kelly was "an excellent scholar and an artist of no mean degree."

http://www.casebook.org/victims/mary_jane_kelly.html

I have not looked for the source of those comments, but they sound familiar.

[lynn cates]

new craze

Hello Penhalion.

"Does anybody here have any information that paints him in a darker tone? Reports of violence either in person or by his order?"

I think the new fashion is to suspect those who are punctual and pay their bills.

Cheers.
LC

[Penhalion]

We sometimes act as though McCarthy was a latter day Bill Sykes but nothing in what I've seen shows him in a particularly bad light. He was probably a sharp business man and certainly no angel but he doesn't seem to have an extensive record of police involvement. He defended the reputation of the area in a public forum and was apparently well thought of enough to be considered an effective spokesman.

Does anybody here have any information that paints him in a darker tone? Reports of violence either in person or by his order?

[Sam Flynn]

I suppose it is just possible that McCathy made up the arrears to avoid any suspicion from the Police that he was gaining from a prosititute paying her rent from immoral earnings.

I think the police knew she was a prostitute, so that was a vain hope if it was his intention. Plus, as I suggested yesterday, McCarthy was doing "all right" from his shop and from his other tenants, by no means all of whom were prostitutes. Indeed, I don't even think that Miller's Court was his only source of rent money - something in the back of my mind tells me he rented out rooms in Great Pearl Street as well. He certainly went on to become a very well-off landlord.

[DVV]

Yes I am. In Mary's case it was the unique situation of emigrating from Ireland and then making her way alone in the big city of London which put her in a vulnerable situation. This all happened rather quickly for her, compared with the long slow slide to the rookeries experienced by some of the other victims.
Roy

Hi Roy,

I can take your point (most interesting), nonetheless, at the time she was about to marry Fleming, she certainly could still expect an ordinary life.
She had just drown bad card, in fact. (Fish and Lechmere will object it was a bad cart, but don't trust them).

Cheers

[lynn cates]

Conspiracies R Us

Hello Damaso. "Conspiracy" is a robust notion with many convolutions. However, there is one documented "conspiracy" going on at this time.

To understand its tortured intricacies, permit me to recommend Christy Campbell's "Fenian Fire." In fine, HM government could not permit ANY investigation that even possibly involved the Jubilee Dynamite Plot.

Cheers.
LC

[MrBarnett]

Hi Roy,

It's a wet afternoon here.

Actually, if we believe the story, Mary came to London via Cardiff, a Welsh port city where she possibly learned her trade. Couldn't a Welsh girl have followed a similar path? And if the port city had been Bristol, a West Country English girl?

MrB

[Roy Corduroy]

Good morning Mr B

Hi Roy,
Are you suggesting that the reason that Mary was the youngest victim was that she was Irish ?

Yes I am. In Mary's case it was the unique situation of emigrating from Ireland and then making her way alone in the big city of London which put her in a vulnerable situation. This all happened rather quickly for her, compared with the long slow slide to the rookeries experienced by some of the other victims.

Roy

[GUT]

Hi,

I suppose it is just possible that McCathy made up the arrears to avoid any suspicion from the Police that he was gaining from a prosititute paying her rent from immoral earnings.

Just a thought.

Best wishes.

G'day Hatchett

A suggestion 've heard before, or that he hoped someone else might pay. The real problem is that sooner or later you have to make a call, do you [and I mean that in general and not you in particular] believe any statements or suspect them all, personally I believe the man that he was owed substantial arrears in rent by Mary and Joe.

[Hatchett]

Hi,

I suppose it is just possible that McCathy made up the arrears to avoid any suspicion from the Police that he was gaining from a prosititute paying her rent from immoral earnings.

Just a thought.

Best wishes.

[Damaso Marte]

Doesn't lynn cates actually believe some variant of this conspiracy theory? He is constantly hinting at his view of the MJK killing as a "spy drama" without explaining much further.

[Barnaby]

Yes, this has the fingerprints of Mycroft Holmes all over it.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Roy,

Are you suggesting that the reason that Mary was the youngest victim was that she was Irish ?

MrB

[MrBarnett]

Among working class people, I wouldn't have thought so.

But perhaps Kelly had convinced Jack (McC) that her family were well off.

[Wickerman]

Possibly McC. had swallowed Mary's stories about her well-to-do relatives...

MrB

I think it was common practice at the time to expect the living relatives to make amends, settle any outstanding debts, especially those incurred by a female.
Opportunity Knocks!