Was Mary Kelly a Ripper victim?

[Sam Flynn]

You don't seem to understand perspective.

I understand most things, perspective included.

That is NOT her knee. It's that bolt of cloth we see running almost parallel with her left forearm and hand in MJK1, which REMAINS in the same relation to her left hand and the (now invisible) line of her left forearm in MJK3. That piece of cloth also lines up with the "garter" on her right leg and the flaps of abdominal flesh we see on the bedside table in both photos. It all fits, believe me.

What you and others are doing is seeing a "bendy-looking thing" in MJK3 and, because knees are "bendy things" you assume that what's in the photograph must be a knee. Well, it isn't. I used to think it was, too, until I worked it out and realised my mistake.

[Batman]

For it to be her knee the photographer would have had to break her leg and/or shrink her thigh to less than a third its length.

In other words, it's NOT her knee.

You don't seem to understand perspective.

I can line a 3D skeleton model up with the 2nd photo in approx 20 min with some tools I have here to show you that it's her knee.

Imagine how MJK1 would look from the reverse side, what that "balloon" of cloth would look like; where the cloth would it sit in relation to the left - yes, left - hand resting above Mary's abdominal cavity. Draw an imaginary line from the pieces of flesh on the bedside table through the "balloon" of cloth, all the way to the "garter" on Mary's right leg; then imagine what it would be like looking out from the wall across her "garter" to the bedside table.

You'll find all the answers in MJK3, because MJK3 is the reverse angle shot of MJK1. You'll find the flesh ont the bedside table, the "garter", her left hand and the "balloon" of cloth in precisely the same relation to, and alignment with, one another as you find in both photographs.

We don't have to imagine anything. We can see it. I just demonstrated in the photograph where each piece is in each circle. I even gave them different colours.

In your latest description, the yellow circle around the bed sheet part in the first photograph becomes the red circle in the second. Well as you can see, I have identified the yellow circle is on both photographs.

So what is the yellow circle in the second photograph then? and where is it in the first?

[Sam Flynn]

For it to be her knee the photographer would have had to break her leg and/or shrink her thigh to less than a third its length.

In other words, it's NOT her knee.

Imagine how MJK1 would look from the reverse side, what that "balloon" of cloth would look like; where the cloth would it sit in relation to the left - yes, left - hand resting above Mary's abdominal cavity. Draw an imaginary line from the pieces of flesh on the bedside table through the "balloon" of cloth, all the way to the "garter" on Mary's right leg; then imagine what it would be like looking out from the wall across her "garter" to the bedside table.

You'll find all the answers in MJK3, because MJK3 is the reverse angle shot of MJK1. You'll find the flesh ont the bedside table, the "garter", her left hand and the "balloon" of cloth in precisely the same relation to, and alignment with, one another as you find in both photographs.

[Batman]

What makes you think JtR worked on Eddowes left-hand side? Her left side has a piece of detached intestine on the ground where he was supposed to be kneeling in your version. In Chapman's case, he throws intestines away from himself, not towards himself. They were tossed over her shoulder. He threw Kelly's intestines away from himself also onto the bench for example.

Also, want to add this...
[Coroner] Would you expect to find much blood on the person inflicting these wounds? - No, I should not. I should say that the abdominal wounds were inflicted by a person kneeling at the right side of the body.

This shows he was operating on Eddowes right side, unlike on the left side of Kelly.

So this idea that the right leg bent up more than the left is just an artifact of working on one side is undermined here because he worked on different sides for Eddowes and Kelly.

[Batman]

It's a mutilated bedsheet, then. Look at MJK1: her left forearm and hand is immediately above, and running parallel to, a "ballooned" piece of cloth. (Sorry, can't think of any other word than "ballooned", but you'll see what I mean.) It's this piece of cloth that we see from the other side, almost head-on, in MJK3. It's this and other, more bloodied, folds of clothing/bed-sheets that people mistake for Kelly's "split" (not!) left femur and left knee.It's anatomically impossible for her knee to have ended up in that position, without the photographer breaking her leg.

That's not the piece of the bedsheet.

That's also not the piece of cloth which I have been describing for several posts now.

That piece of the bedsheet is identified here in the yellow circle.[Warning graphic]

Hopefully, that image puts to rest this idea that it is her knee and not mutilated bedsheets.

[Sam Flynn]

It's not a part of her body? It's mutilated!

It's a mutilated bedsheet, then. Look at MJK1: her left forearm and hand is immediately above, and running parallel to, a "ballooned" piece of cloth. (Sorry, can't think of any other word than "ballooned", but you'll see what I mean.) It's this piece of cloth that we see from the other side, almost head-on, in MJK3. It's this and other, more bloodied, folds of clothing/bed-sheets that people mistake for Kelly's "split" (not!) left femur and left knee.

You can tell me with 100% certainty that it's not her left knee? Demonstrate that 100%.

It's anatomically impossible for her knee to have ended up in that position, without the photographer breaking her leg.

[Batman]

It's not necessarily part of the body, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's not her left knee.

It's not a part of her body? It's mutilated!

You can tell me with 100% certainty that it's not her left knee? Demonstrate that 100%.

What is it then and where is it in the first photograph?

If it's not in the first photograph then the scene has been moved, correct?

[Sam Flynn]

If it's not her knee, what part of the human body do you think it is?

It's not necessarily part of the body, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's not her left knee.

[Batman]

So am I. You can't see the left knee in MJK3; it's away to the right of the shot and well outside the frame.

This picture. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rime_scene.jpg [Warning Graphic]. This picture? Her left knee is out frame?

Sam, look at how there is a piece of material on her left hip in both shots. Do you see it? Some people mistake this for her flesh in the first shot. It isn't. You can also see it in the second picture under her left arm and above her left leg.

Just using that reference alone, there is no way her knee is out of the picture.

Both her femur bones are virtually exposed. The femur is somewhat visible on both her legs in the second picture. That's her knee which has been raised up for the photo.

If it's not her knee, what part of the human body do you think it is?

[Sam Flynn]

In your opinion .....
Feel free to post the close up of what you believe to be a little finger on a non JTR related site and ask the simple question
Little finger of left hand or thumb of right ....
Without leading anybody .
I've done it on my Facebook page previously
If you get 10% supporting the view that it's a little finger I would be stunned.
Only in the bizarre world of ripperology is that not a thumb of a right hand

How does a right hand end up on the left side of the body? Answer: it doesn't. What we're looking at is the little finger of Kelly's left hand - the same left hand we see draped across what remains of her abdomen in MJK1.

[Sam Flynn]

I'm talking about the left knee not the right

So am I. You can't see the left knee in MJK3; it's away to the right of the shot and well outside the frame.

[packers stem]

You don't see the knee in the second photograph; it's way off to the right and well outside the frame. That's where people go wrong.

I'm talking about the left knee not the right

[Sam Flynn]

You don't see the knee in the second photograph; it's way off to the right and well outside the frame. That's where people go wrong.

[Batman]

It is obvious they didn't control the crime scene. They were even throwing a pipe into the fire. I doubt they could get a camera into that corner for the second photograph without moving some things. These cameras needs to be mounted and a timed shutter or else they will blur.

In the second photograph you can see above the left side of her hip, the tip of the sheet that is in the first photograph in the same place. In the second photograph, her knee is considerably higher than the tip of the sheet. It is so much higher than you can now see the sheets of the bed running under them.

[packers stem]

It's a photo, not a painting.
No. I've compared MJK1 and MJK3, and every point in the latter photograph maps onto its equivalent point in the former.

In your opinion .....
Feel free to post the close up of what you believe to be a little finger on a non JTR related site and ask the simple question
Little finger of left hand or thumb of right ....
Without leading anybody .
I've done it on my Facebook page previously
If you get 10% supporting the view that it's a little finger I would be stunned.
Only in the bizarre world of ripperology is that not a thumb of a right hand


Yes it is a photo but with added brush strokes