Mary Jane was murdered between 09.00 and 10.30 am

[etenguy]

Has anyone actually pictured someone leaving that room in broad daylight...almost certainly covered in blood...and not being seen by anyone?

Hi Michael

Came across this and according to the Evening News, as reported on 12 November, it is possible somebody did see him -

A POSSIBLE CLUE
On Saturday afternoon a gentleman engaged in business in the vicinity of the murder gave what is the only approach to a possible clue that has yet been brought to light. He states that he was walking through Mitre square at about ten minutes past ten on Friday morning, when a tall, well dressed man, carrying a parcel under his arm, and rushing along in a very excited manner, ran plump into him. The man's face was covered with blood splashes, and his collar and shirt were also bloodstained. The gentleman did not at the time know anything of the murder.

Of course, this could be unconnected - but well dressed man carrying a parcel under his arm also appears in the description given by George Hutchinson as the man he saw with MJK the morning of the murder.

[mpriestnall]

It maybe for some - it was Morris Lewis who described Kelly as "short". This was captured in the Lloyds Weekly News of 11th Nov.
"She was short, stout & dark, and stood about 5ft 3in"

Kelly looks short (maybe), sturdy, and dark haired as depicted on the front cover of The Illustrated Police News, Saturday November17, 1888.

[Wickerman]

Not explicitly, but Maxwell is quoted as saying that Mary Jane was a 'pleasant little woman,' which is somewhat odd, since she also called her 'rather stout.' Taken together, some have argued that this shows Maxwell had described Mary as short and sturdy.




Still, it's a figure of speech, so that may be reading too much into it. Is it a deal breaker?

It maybe for some - it was Morris Lewis who described Kelly as "short". This was captured in the Lloyds Weekly News of 11th Nov.
"She was short, stout & dark, and stood about 5ft 3in"

[rjpalmer]

hey rj
i was wrong. heard from lord orsam and it was a post. but started by his lordship and not pierre, titled Morris Lewis Revisited.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/witnesses/9916-morris-lewis-revisited

Ah, there it is. Merci beaucoup.

[rjpalmer]

Did Maxwell actually describe Mary as short? Or dark?

Not explicitly, but Maxwell is quoted as saying that Mary Jane was a 'pleasant little woman,' which is somewhat odd, since she also called her 'rather stout.' Taken together, some have argued that this shows Maxwell had described Mary as short and sturdy.




Still, it's a figure of speech, so that may be reading too much into it. Is it a deal breaker?

[Abby Normal]

Thanks Abby - an amazingly comprehensive and interesting account of how the story took shape and how that helps our understanding of what information was provided, by whom and when.

thanks eten but its all lord Orsam . tis a fascinating thread though

[etenguy]

another tour de force post by Lord Orsam, this one focusing on Morris Lewis

Morris Lewis and the reporting of his story - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

Thanks Abby - an amazingly comprehensive and interesting account of how the story took shape and how that helps our understanding of what information was provided, by whom and when.

[Abby Normal]

another tour de force post by Lord Orsam, this one focusing on Morris Lewis

Morris Lewis and the reporting of his story - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums

[Wickerman]

Did Maxwell actually describe Mary as short? Or dark?

Not at the inquest she didn't, if she did it must have been in a press interview.

Not in a press interview either.
Maxwell described the man Kelly was with, outside the Britannia that morning as short.

[Joshua Rogan]

So, being shorter than Mary, she couldn't have described her as short.

Did Maxwell actually describe Mary as short? Or dark?

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

Maxwell was said to be about 5ft 5in tall, as reported in the Morning Advertiser, Standard & Scotsman.

So, being shorter than Mary, she couldn't have described her as short.

[Abby Normal]

hey rj
no i remember reading it on his website, but i cant find it now. or maybe its an article he did for the mag, but he dosnt put those on his website. ill shoot him a note and see if he will send.

hey rj
i was wrong. heard from lord orsam and it was a post. but started by his lordship and not pierre, titled Morris Lewis Revisited.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/witnesses/9916-morris-lewis-revisited

fascinating thread and quite the page turner!!!

[Abby Normal]

deleted. wrong thread

[Abby Normal]

I thought "Pierre" was a woman.

c.d.

pierre is a woman. im talking about an article by lord orsam, aka david barat, a dude.

[c.d.]

hey rj
no i remember reading it on his website, but i cant find it now. or maybe its an article he did for the mag, but he dosnt put those on his website. ill shoot him a note and see if he will send.

I thought "Pierre" was a woman.

c.d.