Limerick, the Key?

[lynn cates]

story

Hello Colin. I agree with just about everything you say. And "overlooking" would be even more convincing if there were not so many details that were so precise in "the standard story" and which have come up empty--even after the exhaustive research of people of the calibre of Debs and Chris and Chris.

But, back to work.

Cheers.
LC

[Rubyretro]

We tend (all of us perhaps) to think that, because we can't find MJK in the historical archive, she must have told lies about her past. That she may have been lying is a worthy consideration. That she must have been lying is an unfair assumption, in my view.

Regards, Bridewell.[/QUOTE]

Utterly agree with that, Bridewell

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

Hello Ruby.

"Interesting. I haven't read back much...but was that Northern Ireland or Limerick?"

It was the Scots Guards. No luck.

Cheers.
LC

Wasn't that looking for 'Jontos', Wales, Scotland/Kelly ? What about Ulster men ?

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. I MUCH prefer the latter.

If we have some credible leads for Barnett and whom he was, and given he lived in the neighbourhood respectably for some time thereafter, then the second option is even more likely.

Cheers.
LC

Thanks, Lynn. Yes, I agree with you and Colin, that is the much more sensible option if one were to be thinking in those terms. That is why the possibility of MJK really being Alice Carroll always seemed far fetched to me.

[lynn cates]

all

Hello Ruby. If I recall properly, Debs checked all the Scots Guards.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

I spy.

Hello Debs. Of course, there were many more British female spies and the right age. Still looking for Miss Worth and Miss Kennedy.

And Alice is not quite off the table--yet.

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

I don't think anyone here has said that MJK must have been lying with every breath about who she was and her background. At the same time, how likely is it, considering the complete lack of supporting evidence, that everything she had allegedly told anyone about herself was fact?

Other women in MJK's circumstances seemed to embroider the truth as a matter of course, and witnesses enjoying the brief limelight may have claimed to be better acquainted with a victim than they actually were. We know the papers printed all manner of baseless details too.

Any 'stories' Mary had told Barnett on their first meeting were likely to go on being told, regardless of how close they later became, and if he doubted the truth of any of them he didn't let it show. It seems to me that he just told it like she had told him, and would be quite bemused to see some of today's speculation.

Love,

Caz
X

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

I don't think anyone here has said that MJK must have been lying with every breath about who she was and her background. At the same time, how likely is it, considering the complete lack of supporting evidence, that everything she had allegedly told anyone about herself was fact?

Good post, Caz.

I have never thought that she was telling the truth about everything...but I feel sure that the truth is mixed in there.

One thing that I find very frustrating is that I think that if we could suddenly, magically, see 'the truth' about MJK, we'd all go " Of course ! It's obvious, now !".

I think that it's a case of not seeing the wood for the trees.

[Cogidubnus]

It may of course be that, name aside, she's telling us the truth about almost everything following her arrival in London...most of the latter stuff seems possible if not totally verifiable...(Mrs Carty, Fleming etc - there are even some candidates for Mrs Buki)...

I begin to wonder whether Lynn's not got the right idea (ie an early form of witness protection with an ID switch)...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

sniffing about

Hello Caroline.

"Other women in MJK's circumstances seemed to embroider the truth as a matter of course, and witnesses enjoying the brief limelight may have claimed to be better acquainted with a victim than they actually were."

Quite true. And yet we can cobble together good bits of their life stories. But with MJK, not even a sniff.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

agree

Hello Ruby.

"I think that if we could suddenly, magically, see 'the truth' about MJK, we'd all go " Of course ! It's obvious, now !""

Completely agree.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Sir Ed

Hello Dave. Thanks. If only we could get to Sir Ed's papers. He claimed he burned them--but I'm not so sure.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

It may of course be that, name aside, she's telling us the truth about almost everything following her arrival in London...most of the latter stuff seems possible if not totally verifiable...(Mrs Carty, Fleming etc - there are even some candidates for Mrs Buki)...

That seems likely to me too, Dave. It would be a lucky break to include someone named Morganstone in a fictitious account of your life and lo and behold there's someone in the right area at the right time with the right name! Joseph Fleming would be a less unusual choice as a name for an ex but the details of the one we know about show him in the right area, he's the right age group etc.

[Debra A]

Wasn't that looking for 'Jontos', Wales, Scotland/Kelly ? What about Ulster men ?

It started off as looking for men named Kelly serving in the 2Bt Scots Guards. It then progressed to men of any name born in Limerick and serving in the 2Bt Scots Guards...which produced one man. From there we went on to men of any name born in Wales and serving in the 2Bt Scots Guards (in case 'Henry Johnto' was born after a move to Wales) and interspersed with this were random look up suggestions like men named Henry or with the surname Johns(t)on.
It couldn't go on forever though, people get bored, subs run out etc...

There was a Michael Kelly in the 2Bt Scots Guards, serving in 1888, who I've mentioned a couple of times. He was born in Ireland and his next of kin is given as his mother, still living back in Ireland (letters from Ireland?). No one batted an eyelid though or showed the slightest interest in him...what are we looking for if not the exact details according to MJK? That's the big question?

[Bridewell]

Eyelid Batting

There was a Michael Kelly in the 2Bt Scots Guards, serving in 1888, who I've mentioned a couple of times. He was born in Ireland and his next of kin is given as his mother, still living back in Ireland (letters from Ireland?). No one batted an eyelid though or showed the slightest interest in him...what are we looking for if not the exact details according to MJK? That's the big question?

Hi Debs,

I'm interested - and my Ancestry subscription is still live. Are you able to give a bit more detail? If so I'll see what I can find over the next few days. Michael Kelly could easily be Michael Henry Kelly, or even Henry Michael Kelly. My eyelids are batting, believe me.

Regards, Colin.